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      • 195. Re: what's happening to $9.99?!?!?!
        03FLHT2 wrote:

        I had wanted to get a couple of Ayn Rand books, Atlas Shrugged and Fountain Head and they want 27 dollars for the eBooks that's   Insane

         

        This would be a good entry in the omnibus publisher fail thread.

         

        You can buy a nice boxed set of the two books from Amazon for $12 and some change - and they want $50+ to buy the same two books as eBooks?  To say that is "insane" is being kind.

         

        Ayn Rand Boxed Set

         

        • 196. Re: what's happening to $9.99?!?!?!

           

          sub_rosa wrote:

          03FLHT2 wrote:

          I had wanted to get a couple of Ayn Rand books, Atlas Shrugged and Fountain Head and they want 27 dollars for the eBooks that's   Insane

           

          This would be a good entry in the omnibus publisher fail thread.

           

          You can buy a nice boxed set of the two books from Amazon for $12 and some change - and they want $50+ to buy the same two books as eBooks?  To say that is "insane" is being kind.

           

          Ayn Rand Boxed Set

           

           

          Just view the exorbitant price as a lesson in the author's own philosophy.  If anyone would appreciate naked capitalistic greed, it's Rand.  

           

          • 197. Re: what's happening to $9.99?!?!?!
            03FLHT2 wrote:

            I had wanted to get a couple of Ayn Rand books, Atlas Shrugged and Fountain Head and they want 27 dollars for the eBooks that's   Insane

            I saw  a few Ayn Rand books at this site:  http://www.truly-free.org/#fR

             

            You'll have to side load them.  You might want to run them through Calibre to get the metadata and book covers too.

             

             

             

            • 198. Re: Ebook Prices
              elaine_hf

              Here's what I see as part of the problem. When you purchase an ebook, you have a handful of atoms. No physical book to re-sell or lend out (for an indefinite amount of time, not just 2 weeks and only to nook owners...), you can't return it if you purchased the wrong thing, you can't use the B&N discount card towards the purchase, I NEVER see any 'Buy 2 Get the 3rd One Free (or half price)' sales... And the cost is inching up towards a new hardback copy. All that said, I love my nook and I love that I'm not potentially adding more paper to landfills, filling my house with clutter, etc. but if the prices stay this high and keep climbing, it's time to resort to that old-fashioned fave - the public library. Sorry, B&N, you're starting to lose me...

              • 199. Re: Ebook Prices

                You know...

                It cost basically nothing to publish an e-book, since the original content starts out as digital, (maybe a few authors are still using a typewriter, but I doubt it).

                 

                Either way it costs a ton to print and deliver hard covers, and 10 or 10-million, the e-book doesn't cost one additional cent to print or deliver.

                 

                I believe I would switch back to hard-covers if I were not selling my house and moving onto a 46-foot boat, (space somewhat limited for books).

                maw

                • 200. Re: Ebook Prices
                  Doug_Pardee
                  BikerBook-Reader wrote:

                  It cost basically nothing to publish an e-book, since the original content starts out as digital

                  Try it and see. You can't just throw a Word document out there, any more than you can throw it at the printing machines. An e-book has to be crafted from the text. True, you don't have to type in the text like they did in the days of Linotype, but there's still a lot to be done to make it into an e-book.

                   

                  BikerBook-Reader wrote:

                  maybe a few authors are still using a typewriter, but I doubt it

                  Stephen J. Cannell, for one. But that's just an amusing sidelight.

                   

                  BikerBook-Reader wrote:

                  it costs a ton to print and deliver hard covers

                   

                  Not really. Printing costs for a hardcover run a couple of bucks. Delivery is done in bulk.

                   

                  BikerBook-Reader wrote:

                  the e-book doesn't cost one additional cent to print or deliver.

                  ??? Aside from the cost of the server farms, the people to tend them, the people to load e-book data into the retailer sites, etc... there's the bank fee for credit card transactions, and the fee for DRM.

                   

                  I'm not saying that e-books are as expensive to produce and deliver as hard-covers, but it's not as simple as you've painted it.

                  • 201. Re: Ebook Prices
                    keriflur

                     

                    Doug_Pardee wrote:

                    BikerBook-Reader wrote:

                    It cost basically nothing to publish an e-book, since the original content starts out as digital

                    Try it and see. You can't just throw a Word document out there, any more than you can throw it at the printing machines. An e-book has to be crafted from the text. True, you don't have to type in the text like they did in the days of Linotype, but there's still a lot to be done to make it into an e-book.

                     

                     

                    I took the manuscript for a book I'm working on and ran it though Calibre to create an epub file.  I had to make a few changes to the layout, and since it was the first time I'd ever done it, it took me a few tries.  All in I spent about 30 minutes trying different format tweaks to get a layout that looked pleasing in the epub format.  If I new what I was doing when I started, I could have had a perfectly formatted epub file in under 10 minutes.  So, no, there's really not much to be done.

                     

                    ETA: Forgot to mention that I didn't index the book.  That might take a bit more time, but I don't think that's done manually, so I wouldn't add too much more work to it.

                    • 202. Re: Ebook Prices

                      @ LarryOnLI  "I guess it depends on your interpretation of the word competitive then."

                       

                      As I said in my post, I expect B&N to match the price of its principal competitors on standard, high selling books by popular authors.  I recognize that on lesser known, slower selling books there might be differences. 

                       

                      If, as was pointed out, the discrepancy is due to the uneven implementation of the agency model then so be it.  It will be clear in time what the B&N strategy is relative to its competitors.  My statement stands with respect to books priced by the retailer.

                      • 203. Re: Ebook Prices
                        Doug_Pardee
                        keriflur wrote:

                         

                        I took the manuscript for a book I'm working on and ran it though Calibre to create an epub file.  I had to make a few changes to the layout, and since it was the first time I'd ever done it, it took me a few tries.  All in I spent about 30 minutes trying different format tweaks to get a layout that looked pleasing in the epub format.

                        It's an e-book, but it's nothing like the quality that a publisher needs to produce. It's like I can make a DVD of a movie I recorded off the air with my DVR, and the result is a DVD with the movie on it, but nobody is going to confuse it with the commercial DVD of that movie.

                         

                        Calibre does quick-and-dirty conversions, and in my experience they're awfully dirty. They're chock full of unnecessary crud and not particularly well-formed. I suspect that if you ran your EPUB through epubcheck 1.0.5 you'd get some nasty surprises.

                         

                        In addition to the text conversion to EPUB format, the publisher needs to deal with codesets and special characters (since different readers and different people will be using different fonts), setting up the CSS styling including separate ADE style sheet, chapter breaks (making sure not to exceed 260KB per chapter), section breaks, specially formatted sections such as tables, diary entries, or correspondence, creating hyperlinks, dealing with footnotes (not fun in EPUB), page headers and footers, embedded artwork, font embedding, table of contents (NCX file), cover art, metadata, etc.

                         

                        Then there's running it through epubcheck, fixing the glitches, running it through epubcheck again, and proofing the resulting novel on a number of popular e-readers and reading systems.

                         

                        And that's just EPUB. The publishers also need to produce MOBI for Kindle and PML for B&N. MOBI's not too far off from EPUB, but PML is a whole different setup.

                         

                        I haven't had to do it (yet), but I'm guessing that doing a typical novel right is probably a couple days' work for all three formats. That's assuming that you've already got the cover art from the print version and that it doesn't need too much work to make it viable for an 8-level e-Ink display while still looking good on a color display like an iPad.

                         

                        Making an e-book is fairly easy. Making a commercial-quality e-book is something else.

                         

                        (Still, a lot easier than making a print book.)

                        • 204. Re: Ebook Prices
                          Doug_Pardee wrote:

                          BikerBook-Reader wrote:

                          It cost basically nothing to publish an e-book, since the original content starts out as digital

                          Try it and see. You can't just throw a Word document out there, any more than you can throw it at the printing machines. An e-book has to be crafted from the text. True, you don't have to type in the text like they did in the days of Linotype, but there's still a lot to be done to make it into an e-book.

                           

                          I'm not saying that e-books are as expensive to produce and deliver as hard-covers, but it's not as simple as you've painted it.

                          All true.  The OP left out several costs that exist regardless of whether the book is published in ebook or pbook format.

                           

                          - proofing

                          - editing

                          - marketing

                           

                          - publisher overhead

                          - retailer overhead

                           

                          Each of these is significant in the cost of a book, regardless of format.  There may be some overlap in the first three is it comes out in multiple formats.  But the cost is certainly more than "basically nothing."

                          • 205. Re: Ebook Prices

                            How is publisher and retailer overhead the same?  I mean right now they might be but if we switch over to mainly ebooks overhead is alot lower.

                            • 206. Re: Ebook Prices
                              Elfsshadow wrote:

                              How is publisher and retailer overhead the same?  I mean right now they might be but if we switch over to mainly ebooks overhead is alot lower.

                              I changed the verbage to reflect what I meant to say, "that exist regardless".

                               

                              Publisher overhead probably does not change significantly since they still have to proof, edit, market, etc.

                               

                              Etailer overhead may be significantly lower.

                               

                              But we're still a long way from your hypothesis that "unlimited supply" should have a significant impact on price.  :smileywink:

                              • 207. Re: Ebook Prices

                                 

                                eDigest wrote:

                                Elfsshadow wrote:

                                How is publisher and retailer overhead the same?  I mean right now they might be but if we switch over to mainly ebooks overhead is alot lower.

                                I changed the verbage to reflect what I meant to say, "that exist regardless".

                                 

                                Publisher overhead probably does not change significantly since they still have to proof, edit, market, etc.

                                 

                                Etailer overhead may be significantly lower.

                                 

                                But we're still a long way from your hypothesis that "unlimited supply" should have a significant impact on price.  :smileywink:

                                 

                                 

                                Yabbut ... let me ask you this.

                                 

                                Assuming "unlimited supply," and "unlimited demand," don't you think that at some point the costs will have been paid for? (barring maintenance...I guess that right there just answered my own question. :smileytongue: ) However, initial production costs should, at some point, be paid for and maintenance costs are generally lower than production costs, so, in theory (maybe not in practice) the price of the eBook "should" go lower.

                                 

                                I'm sure this is probably addressed in this thread as I am coming into it late. One of the things I've noticed as a software developer about some people, especially concerning either software or digital items, is that unless they have a physical item in their hand it's simply not as valuable to them. Unless they know what it takes to host and house software and served content, most people are clueless as to the costs of digital items. Software, upgrades, servers, what it takes to run and maintain those servers, staff involved, etc. are all costs that are real and exist. I guess too if some people can't see the sysadmin behind the eBook, that sysadmin simply does not exist to them, but the employee behind the counter in a brick and mortar store does so it's easier for some people to be able to see the costs.

                                • 208. Re: Ebook Prices
                                  keriflur

                                   

                                  eDigest wrote:

                                  Doug_Pardee wrote:

                                  BikerBook-Reader wrote:

                                  It cost basically nothing to publish an e-book, since the original content starts out as digital

                                  Try it and see. You can't just throw a Word document out there, any more than you can throw it at the printing machines. An e-book has to be crafted from the text. True, you don't have to type in the text like they did in the days of Linotype, but there's still a lot to be done to make it into an e-book.

                                   

                                  I'm not saying that e-books are as expensive to produce and deliver as hard-covers, but it's not as simple as you've painted it.

                                  All true.  The OP left out several costs that exist regardless of whether the book is published in ebook or pbook format.

                                   

                                  - proofing

                                  - editing

                                  - marketing

                                   

                                  - publisher overhead

                                  - retailer overhead

                                   

                                  Each of these is significant in the cost of a book, regardless of format.  There may be some overlap in the first three is it comes out in multiple formats.  But the cost is certainly more than "basically nothing."

                                   

                                   

                                  That's the cost for all formats.  If I understood the BikerBook-Reader's original point, the publisher is ALREADY doing all of the proofing, editing and marketing for the pbook, there's almost no additional cost to also release an ebook version.

                                   

                                  Therefore, (my point, not the OPs) when determining a fair price for the ebook, one should take the print sale price (actual, not list) and subtract the cost of manufacturing the pbook and the warehousing and transportation costs of the pbook.

                                   

                                  Onve could argue, however, (and I'm sure you will), that the ebook sale is a lost HC sale and that the proofing, editing and marketing costs should be spread across editions.  Even if we assume that's the case, the difference in the cost of the pbook and the ebook is still the manufacturing, warehousing and transportation cost.

                                  • 209. Re: Ebook Prices

                                     

                                    eDigest wrote:

                                    Elfsshadow wrote:

                                    How is publisher and retailer overhead the same?  I mean right now they might be but if we switch over to mainly ebooks overhead is alot lower.

                                    I changed the verbage to reflect what I meant to say, "that exist regardless".

                                     

                                    Publisher overhead probably does not change significantly since they still have to proof, edit, market, etc.

                                     

                                    Etailer overhead may be significantly lower.

                                     

                                    But we're still a long way from your hypothesis that "unlimited supply" should have a significant impact on price.  :smileywink:

                                     

                                     

                                    Hrmm  I don't see where they are going to need to maintain, say printing presses, forklifts, or trucks in an ebook world but I do take your point. 

                                     

                                    Now unlimited supply will have and impact on price.  Its just a matter if the publishers lower the prices willingly or the are forced to by pirates.