33 Replies Latest reply on Jan 5, 2013 11:40 AM by svedwards

    LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

    Doug_Pardee

      I'm starting to see complaints popping up on the boards here about NOOKbooks that are supposed to be LendMe—they say so on the NOOK, or show up in the LendMe search here on the site—but aren't lendable.

       

      A number of publishers have suddenly stopped supporting LendMe in the past week or so. Could there be any connection to Kindle beginning to offer LendMe on December 30th? Ya think?

       

      We've lost Penguin and a number of smaller publishers. At this point, the list of publishers still doing LendMe looks something like this (I don't claim that this is an exhaustive list):

      The only one of the 'Big 6' publishing houses left doing LendMe is Macmillan. Which surprises me, because Macmillan CEO John Sargent is against library lending and has refused to provide Macmillan e-books for libraries.

       

        • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

          AAARRRRGGGHHH! this is probably why in the last 3 days 8 out of 9 of my books are no longer lendable!! The logo is still there but when you lend it tells you it's no longer able to lend!! OF COURSE customer service wasn't REALLY sure what was going on! Good to know!

          • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

            I've just gotten more active in LendMe groups online and now I wonder what's the point.  Penguin is the biggest loss to me personally because off all the mystery cozies. 

            • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

              I really get frustrated by this. I've sold dozens of Nooks (for B&N) due to my constant raving and toting the "LendMe" feature to my friends. I buy a book that's a "LendMe" under the understanding I will be able to "LEND" the darn thing! They should not be allowed to alter a purchase after the fact. Which is exactly what they are doing.

              I'm sure this was a ploy on behalf of Kindle to kill yet another selling point of the Nook. One less thing to compete with. However; I see a simple solution to all of this. If B&N stopped supporting the publishers that refuse to cooperate in Ebooks or LendMe I'm rather certain that loss in profit which I'm sure is substantial would correct this ill-behavior!

               

              This is the stuff petitions are made of!

               

               

                • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                  Ya_Ya

                   


                  Wrking21 wrote:

                  If B&N stopped supporting the publishers that refuse to cooperate in Ebooks or LendMe I'm rather certain that loss in profit which I'm sure is substantial would correct this ill-behavior!

                   


                   

                  No way can B&N afford to drop that significant portion of its product, especially because the publishers not allowing lending represent most of the bestselling authors.

                   

                  A boycott wouldn't work anywyay, because If B&N dropped them, NOOK users would just go to Kobo, Sony, or someone else and buy there.  B&N would lose money, but the publishers wouldn't.

                  • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                    KingAl

                    Wrking21 wrote:

                    I However; I see a simple solution to all of this. If B&N stopped supporting the publishers that refuse to cooperate in Ebooks or LendMe I'm rather certain that loss in profit which I'm sure is substantial would correct this ill-behavior!

                     

                     

                     


                    Won't work unless they can get the other ebook sellers to cooperate. Amazon has more clout than B&N, and they lost their fight with Macmillan over the Agency Model.

                  • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                    Tweedledee

                    Colanders and funnels aside - the publishers are in business to make $$$ not to be philanthropists (altruism is not their middle name), no I am not siding with the concept of removing the Lendme feature, just saying. 

                     

                    This is a new venue that has taken off all of a sudden in the last few years - that dreaded "K" word and now nook have taken a preeminent position in sales and revenue generation.  With lendme the publishers see a market that is not tapped - the folks that we just might lend that e-book to, if we cannot, they will have to buy it to read it.  Captive audience of an intangible product, what a treat to any merchant/wholesaler/manufacturer...

                     

                    Intangible can in their minds create that captive audience, unlike a DTB the e-book just can not be picked up and handed off to another party.  Lendme at this point does not make sense to them, we have as Pogo said "met the enemy and he is we" (paraphrase).  The e-book is successful, we the nook and the dreaded "K" word folks have made it so, they publishers are reaping the bucks.

                     

                    Take away that lendme option and they have made another sale - you can bet your sweet colander/funnel that they are making more from the e-book sales than from the paperback & hardback sales.   Overhead is a shelf in the sky, minimal at best for the editing and uploading & storing to that cyber shelf.   No employees required to just park it in the sky (well a few to punch a button to get it up there and maintain the sky shelf - they probably use contractors), no shipping, packing, postage, freight, warehousing fees, hum, wonder how they handle the warehouse/inventory tax on these puppies - some states are very heavy in the warehouse/inventory tax business.  

                     

                    Just my observations on the reasons for the removal of Lendme by the powers that be. 

                     

                     

                      • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                        Ya_Ya

                         


                        Tweedledee wrote:

                        Colanders and funnels aside - the publishers are in business to make $$$ not to be philanthropists (altruism is not their middle name), no I am not siding with the concept of removing the Lendme feature, just saying. 

                         

                        This is a new venue that has taken off all of a sudden in the last few years - that dreaded "K" word and now nook have taken a preeminent position in sales and revenue generation.  With lendme the publishers see a market that is not tapped - the folks that we just might lend that e-book to, if we cannot, they will have to buy it to read it.  Captive audience of an intangible product, what a treat to any merchant/wholesaler/manufacturer...

                         


                         

                        I was hoping you'd see that.  :smileytongue:

                         

                        Unfortunately, I think they're missing the point that I've often bought books I've borrowed from the library.  My friends and I rarely lent/borrowed books, so the Lend Me feature isn't one I'm that excited about (or sorry to see go - although I did put all of my lendables on a shelf, just in case) but if anyone in those businesses is a reader, surely they should see that some people get hooked on and buy authors after reading the first book free -- Given, borrowed or library loan...  (Note I said should, because clearly they don't.)

                          • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                            Isn't this action -- changing whether a book is 'lendable' after it has been bought by the consumer -- worthy of a class-action lawsuit?   Retailers cannot change a warranty period after the customer buys a product, right?

                             

                            But then, what effect would a lawsuit have? Would it scare more publishers into leaving the LendMe arrangment?

                             

                            I feel pretty cheated at the moment. Myself and 2 others in my family got Nooks with the understanding that we could loan books to each other. That's one reason we chose the Nook. Now that the lendable list is shrinking, perhaps we should have purchased K's instead for the lower eBook prices. I've compared many books that my family wants to read, and the K price is almost always lower than the Nook price.  :-( 

                             

                             

                             

                              • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                                Doug_Pardee

                                jaylady: I'm not a lawyer (thank heavens), but to my knowledge you pretty much can't sue if there aren't either monetary damages or physical injury involved. Besides, a class-action lawsuit is only going to happen if the law firm sees a chance to make really big money.

                                 

                                I suppose you could contact your state Attorney General (or whatever the equivalent position is in your state) and file a criminal complaint about fraud.

                                 

                                As for sharing e-books within your family, see the link in my signature. It's a lot simpler than LendMe, and doesn't come with the restrictions.

                                 

                                • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                                  Haleakala_LKB

                                   


                                  jaylady wrote:

                                  Isn't this action -- changing whether a book is 'lendable' after it has been bought by the consumer -- worthy of a class-action lawsuit?   Retailers cannot change a warranty period after the customer buys a product, right?

                                   

                                  But then, what effect would a lawsuit have? Would it scare more publishers into leaving the LendMe arrangment?

                                   

                                  I feel pretty cheated at the moment. Myself and 2 others in my family got Nooks with the understanding that we could loan books to each other. That's one reason we chose the Nook. Now that the lendable list is shrinking, perhaps we should have purchased K's instead for the lower eBook prices. I've compared many books that my family wants to read, and the K price is almost always lower than the Nook price.  :-( 

                                   

                                   

                                   


                                   

                                  I agree there is an unwholesome feeling to buying a book that is "lendable", then having it changed on you after the fact, regardless of whose fault the change is.

                                   

                                  However, see the link in Doug's sig about lending books within a family. MUCH better way thanthe lending thing ever was, IMO.

                                   

                                  LisaB

                                    • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                      Thanks for the tip, I printed those instructions. I assume there is a way to do this when we're separated by half a country? just moving docs into My documents, then email the pdf files? I'll look into this, thanks again.

                                       

                                        • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                          jaylady wrote:

                                          I assume there is a way to do this when we're separated by half a country? just moving docs into My documents, then email the pdf files? I'll look into this, thanks again.

                                           


                                          My sister is only two states away and not half a country but we e-mail the epubs to each other. They generally are small so it isn't a problem. I generally find it easiest to download the book in question from the B&N website digital locker and e-mail the file from there. When my sister visited me, we put our info in on each other's Nook, and we had to redo that after the 1.5 update but we've been sharing ever since, and mostly me because she doesn't buy as many.

                                    • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                      Aren't lendme books only available for a week and only to one person?  How would that lose them sales?  Not a lot of people can read a book in a week (I know I'm often stressed trying to finish a book in the library's 21-day window).  If anything, they're gaining a sale because the person will possibly want to finish the book and buy it himself, or he'll want to buy more books by the same author, etc.

                                       

                                      Many authors give away the first book in a series for free or extremely reduced prices, which is much more extreme than lending a book for a week.  If the book's good, the author gains customers who buy the following books in the series, thus making up for the initial loss.  The first books in Amanda Hocking's series are 99 cents, the rest are 2.99.  I've bought them all.  I wouldn't have bought any if I hadn't been enticed by the 99 cent price point of that first book. 

                                       

                                      I personally don't think the publishers pulling the Lend Me option is any big loss.  It was more than a mediocre offering to begin with.  It really angers me that they are so controlling in books that we pay for.  It also irks me that an ebook purchase is considered to be only a license and not a straight up transfer of ownership. 

                                       

                                      Sorry if this has all already been said in this thread (probably has).  I got through the first page before my need to type took over. 

                                      • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                        So, someone tell me when the publishers are going to put something on actual books so we can't lend them either! This is just stupid to me - whenever I've bought a hard copy book, I've lent it to tons of people. I should be able to do the same bloody thing with a digital book!

                                          • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                                            Doug_Pardee

                                            JWander wrote:

                                             

                                            someone tell me when the publishers are going to put something on actual books so we can't lend them either!


                                            They did in the old days, and Congress passed a law that said that they couldn't: 17 USC 109(a), commonly known as "First Sale". Congress hasn't passed any equivalent law for e-books.

                                             

                                            Also, the existing First Sale doctrine is under fire. In two court cases unrelated to books, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that First Sale doesn't apply in certain cases. In Omega v. Costco, the court ruled that copies made outside of the US aren't eligible for First Sale protection, and in Vernor v. Autodesk, the court ruled that a shrinkwrap End User License Agreement (EULA) that forbids resale overrides the statutory First Sale permissions.

                                             

                                            So don't be surprised if publishers start having books printed outside the US, and enclosing them in a shrinkwrap with a EULA that forbids lending or transfer of ownership.

                                             


                                            JWander wrote:

                                             

                                            whenever I've bought a hard copy book, I've lent it to tons of people. I should be able to do the same bloody thing with a digital book!


                                            You can: just lend them your NOOK with the e-book on it.

                                             

                                            The difference is that with a book, you're lending your copy of the book. What you're asking for is the permission to make a new copy for someone else, and the point of copyright law is to give the copyright holder control over who, if anyone, is permitted to make copies of the work. And that list probably doesn't include you.

                                             

                                        • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                                          ellsbells930

                                          Tweedledee wrote:

                                          they will have to buy it to read it. .....Take away that lendme option and they have made another sale  

                                           

                                           


                                            Not necessarily.  People just won't read the book - or they will go back to a DTB version from a library or a yard sale.   Or as someone earlier said... "sideloading is a wonderful thing"

                                            • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                              the simple fact is that the VAST VAST majority don't bother with things that only mildly interest them.  They might pirate it or not, but it's not a deciding factor.  Those things that they really want to enjoy, they go and pay for like a movie.

                                               

                                              At least as of this date, you are all free to pirate, copy and share a legitimate work of ours (when they come).  Our lawyers may have different things to say, but this is in our hearts and something we will staunchly enforce as a principal. 

                                               

                                              Sharing is caring.  And we do care.  Sometimes things don't need to be ALL about the money.  Mostly, sure... but not all.

                                               

                                              We feel we will lose nothing in sales.  Absolutely zero and we feel that we will make more sales based upon our work (call it a free sample)

                                               

                                              Tweedledee is extremely wrong.  People will find an avenue to get it no matter what.  Embrace those people and pull them to your side is our philosophy.  Sure, we will never get all or perhaps even most of them... but we will get some who found our work and then bought it.  But, pretty much, if you are not well known, you don't get diddly, like netflix... tons of stuff, some great, but it's not something you would have ever bought... but i've found TONS of stuff on netflix that i love that i never would have considered if I didn't sub.

                                               

                                              I never would have paid for that movie certainly, but also, it's not a movie i'll forget anytime soon.

                                               

                                              The distribution models need to change, but the corporations won't let that happen. This is the problem now.  With them rebuking sharing (a time honored tradition among DTB), they are really in their corporate greed mindset and thinking that every book not shared is one that will be bought.  It won't.  People just won't read it.

                                               

                                              Well, not legally at least as JK Rowling has found out.

                                               

                                              And on that note, I'm outtie.  Theriot Publishing hopes to do things a bit different than the corporate mongers who suck out your soul.

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                                                Tweedledee

                                                Tweedledee does not subscribe to or drink the "Kool-Aid".

                                                 

                                                I have a colander without holes that I wear at my computer, terribly afraid of the karma, not the "evil" rays.

                                                 

                                                What I espoused in my prior posts is not what I believe, it is how the Corporate model functions, in the real world.  There is not one scintilla of altruism in the Corporate model, although we/they may start with the best of intentions, we/they fall to the wayside when that almighty dollar is involved.

                                                 

                                                This further supports the concept that the consumer will take action with "crackers" for the DRM and other passive agressive actions to circumvent the Corporate decision to make benefits such as LendMe unavailable to them.  Justification in hand whilst they do it, "they made me do it".

                                                 

                                                As for reverting to the DTB, perhaps, but I am more of a "professional" skeptic and will assume the above model will be what the consumer adopts.  Napster is a perfect example of how the music industry evolved into the DRM, propriatory rights battles, piracy, and still today people like us sitting at our computers using Limeware, getting busted. 

                                                 

                                                Once ya got something that tickles your fancy - i.e. e-reader, d*mned if they will take that away and the benefits that it provides, not carrying around a huge library of DTB's in boxes, same as all of those pesky CD's in those jewel boxes that were constantly shattering.

                                                 

                                                None of this fits any model that I remotely and privately subscribe to - I am just an old hippy with a talent at tinding the mistakes (get out of jail for free cards) that were made and turning them into profits in reverse for the Corporate entity.  For that reason the colander has no holes.....

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                              • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                                                svedwards
                                                But in truth I think they would make more money off a lendme book then a paper one for the simple fact that you can repeatedly lend out a paper book but only lend a ebook once. So your average $7.99 split between say 5 people isn't much of a profit compared to $7.99 split twice.
                                              • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                                Well I just discovered that the Tom Clancy books I purchased and were lendable yesterday are no longer lendable.

                                                 

                                                • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                                  Here's an interesting website dedicated to ebook lending:

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  http://www.ebookexchange.com/index.php

                                                    • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                                      So is this why some book son my nook show up as lendable but do not show up as lendable through the website or my iPhone?  What happens if I try to lend it anyway? 

                                                        • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle
                                                          bklvr896

                                                           


                                                          Joykins wrote:

                                                          So is this why some book son my nook show up as lendable but do not show up as lendable through the website or my iPhone?  What happens if I try to lend it anyway? 


                                                          Yes, since this is fairly new, BN has taken the lend me option off the web, but so far, hasn't removed it from the books downloaded to the Nook.  From what I've read, even though it still showing as lendable on the Nook, it actually won't work.

                                                           

                                                      • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                                        Thanks. The book I wanted to lend was published by Penguin, it stills shows the LendMe symbol, but I guess it isn't lendable any more.  You would think one loan for two weeks would be reasonable for the publishers to accept.  So much fun to share.  Ah, well.  Life is change.  Thanks for the info.

                                                        --Nancy

                                                        • LendMe torpedoed by Kindle - Macmillan pulls out
                                                          Doug_Pardee

                                                          Now that Macmillan has pulled out of LendMe, none of the 'Big 6' publishing houses have lendable e-books. Harlequin was never part of LendMe, either. The only "mainstream" publisher still offering over 1000 LendMe titles is Kensington.

                                                           

                                                          Here's an updated list of LendMe publishers (I still don't claim that this is an exhaustive list), with the ones with the most LendMe titles first:

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          Not participating:

                                                           

                                                          • Random House ('Big 6')
                                                          • Penguin ('Big 6')
                                                          • Hachette ('Big 6')
                                                          • HarperCollins ('Big 6')
                                                          • Simon & Schuster ('Big 6')
                                                          • Macmillan ('Big 6')
                                                          • Harlequin
                                                          • Soho
                                                          • Dorchester
                                                          • Hyperion/Disney
                                                          • Candlewick
                                                          • Sourcebooks
                                                          • Pearson
                                                          • Baker
                                                          • NavPress
                                                          • Thomas Nelson
                                                          • Zondervan
                                                          • Smashwords
                                                          • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                                            I am an unhappy Nook customer.   One of the main reasons I chose NOOK was the opportunity to lend a book once to another Nook owner, but as soon as I tried I found that only some books - generally, almost always, okay 'always' - books that I would not choose would be the only ones that could be shared.  Now we find that it is because publishers are running in some other direction - probably to Amazon.  Well, why would that be?  The first thought that springs to mind is that B & N has very poor bargaining skills when dealing with publishing companies.  Come on, why are the execs not doing whatever negotiating is necessary to fulfill their advertising promises - those promises that made me choose NOOK and recommend it to my family.  I really feel quite disappointed, disillusioned and disgruntled.  

                                                            • Re: LendMe torpedoed by Kindle

                                                              You know all of this makes me want to go back to buying paperback!!  I could lend, give away, or trade my books anytime I wanted to then.