14 Replies Latest reply: May 3, 2013 5:38 AM by Jeff4066

    Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?

      Any thoughts?

        • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?
          patgolfneb

          Legally, they could. I doubt they will unless the number of people choosing to use it increases dramatically.

            • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?
              2noelle
              What is this about? CN?
              • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?
                compulsivereaderTX

                legally?  BN severing the warranty IS a legal consequence. Once the warranty is voided and the legal relationship between BN and the device's owner is severed, I don't see what BN can do about it that would make financial sense. Deny them the ability to purchase from the store?

                 

                It's a fact, there are people who are going to explore their tech devices, see what they can do with it and how to make it better, at least in their own eyes. They are "problem solvers and tinkerers" and get intense satifaction in successfully solving those problems. How else would all the tech advances have been imagined and brought to life so quickly over the last few decades? Many of those advances were due to the same process and not neccessarily by people who went to college to learn how to do that or were employed by the manufacturing companies. Many of the improvements seen in tech was lifted from such people by the companies that make such devices so they don't have a whole lot of moral room to speak. I can't imagine that any prosecution of such behavior will be successful in stopping it. We're dealing with a mind set that is almost compulsive in the need to figure things out and how to make it better (as to their own needs). They don't see their behavior as illegal or immoral if it's not used for illegal or immoral activities.

                 

                I speak from experience. My own hubby can not get a tech device in his hands without having to pick it apart and see how it works. I imagine his dad must have lamented over Lawn mowers, etc always being in pieces when DH was a chld. Steve Jobs was hubbys hero, his IPhone and IPad are the only devices he owns that he's never tinkered with, he said he doesn't have to, he likes them as is.

                 

                Does modifying void the warranty? yes. Does he care? No, he considers it better now and wouldn't trade it for a warranty for any reason. He was one of the geeks that taught me how to build my own computer from scratch 20 or so years ago and he continues to build his own computers and networks. Our first official date was to see and drool over the 486 he built. The house we recently built is a techies dream, he spent hours and weeks, designing and then laying the cables and networking throughout the house as it was built so HAL could live with us and be available in every room. I helped in the laying of those cables, etc. There were times when I thought "really? We are going to need this?" :smileyhappy:  He doesn't see a need to wait for someone else to put what he needs on the market when he can do it himself. He sees the tech gagdets available as a means to an end, not the final product. Lawsuits won't change this behavior. He's a tinkerer, he has to tinker with everything.

                 

                BN can make the device more difficult to modify but I don't see what they can do legally that wouldn't be a major waste of resources. When the modifications are used to enhance functionality and not to steal or hack, it would be wiser of BN to consider adding those functions to the device, rather than prosecuting others for fulfilling their own needs.

                 

                Even MS took the modifications by Hackers to the XBOX and incorporated those ideas and functions into the XBOX experience.

                 

                Many of the tech companies out there are only tinkerers that saw a need and figured out how to improve a device by tailoring it to that need, then took it to the next level and started manufacturing the devices based on what they created from their tinkering. Dell, anyone? Steve Jobs? Bill Gates?

                  • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?
                    Froide

                    compulsivereaderTX wrote:

                    legally?  BN severing the warranty IS a legal consequence. Once the warranty is voided and the legal relationship between BN and the device's owner is severed, I don't see what BN can do about it that would make financial sense. Deny them the ability to purchase from the store?

                     

                    It's a fact, there are people who are going to explore their tech devices, see what they can do with it and how to make it better, at least in their own eyes. They are "problem solvers and tinkerers" and get intense satifaction in successfully solving those problems. How else would all the tech advances have been imagined and brought to life so quickly over the last few decades? Many of those advances were due to the same process and not neccessarily by people who went to college to learn how to do that or were employed by the manufacturing companies. Many of the improvements seen in tech was lifted from such people by the companies that make such devices so they don't have a whole lot of moral room to speak. I can't imagine that any prosecution of such behavior will be successful in stopping it. We're dealing with a mind set that is almost compulsive in the need to figure things out and how to make it better (as to their own needs). They don't see their behavior as illegal or immoral if it's not used for illegal or immoral activities.

                     

                    I speak from experience. My own hubby can not get a tech device in his hands without having to pick it apart and see how it works. I imagine his dad must have lamented over Lawn mowers, etc always being in pieces when DH was a chld. Steve Jobs was hubbys hero, his IPhone and IPad are the only devices he owns that he's never tinkered with, he said he doesn't have to, he likes them as is.

                     

                    Does modifying void the warranty? yes. Does he care? No, he considers it better now and wouldn't trade it for a warranty for any reason. He was one of the geeks that taught me how to build my own computer from scratch 20 or so years ago and he continues to build his own computers and networks. Our first official date was to see and drool over the 486 he built. The house we recently built is a techies dream, he spent hours and weeks, designing and then laying the cables and networking throughout the house as it was built so HAL could live with us and be available in every room. I helped in the laying of those cables, etc. There were times when I thought "really? We are going to need this?" :smileyhappy:  He doesn't see a need to wait for someone else to put what he needs on the market when he can do it himself. He sees the tech gagdets available as a means to an end, not the final product. Lawsuits won't change this behavior. He's a tinkerer, he has to tinker with everything.

                     

                    BN can make the device more difficult to modify but I don't see what they can do legally that wouldn't be a major waste of resources. When the modifications are used to enhance functionality and not to steal or hack, it would be wiser of BN to consider adding those functions to the device, rather than prosecuting others for fulfilling their own needs.

                     

                    Even MS took the modifications by Hackers to the XBOX and incorporated those ideas and functions into the XBOX experience.

                     

                    Many of the tech companies out there are only tinkerers that saw a need and figured out how to improve a device by tailoring it to that need, then took it to the next level and started manufacturing the devices based on what they created from their tinkering. Dell, anyone? Steve Jobs? Bill Gates?



                    @Compulsiveread RE: Your modder/tinkerer hubby....

                     

                    Innovative brands and companies (e.g., 3M, Hilti AG, Nortel, Sense Worldwide) value such "lead users" and actively seek them out to conduct lead user (and other types of market) research. Some obvious places to find them are in forums such as this one. No doubt, many tech companies assign scouts to learn what they can and to recruit candidates for research studies at such forums as AFN, Goodreads, LibraryThing, Liliputing, Mobileread, N2A, Shelfari and XDA-Developers. I've participated such research, e.g.,  for Google.

                     

                    However, BN doesn't seem overly interested in users' or developers' opinions or suggestions, nor does BN seem to possess what technology management gurus call a "strategic intent" orientation. Rather, BN (unwisely) seems more focused on what competitors are doing and playing leapfrog with incremental, architectural, and modular changes rather than radical, gamechanging ones. Here's to hoping their new alliances (e.g., with Pearson and Microsoft) will push BN toward a more strategic intent orientation (and all that that implies). If that doesn't happen, I fear BN will continue being disappointed by NOOK/Media/Digital sales results and market share stats.

                  • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?
                    TnTexas

                    patgolfneb: Legally, they could. I doubt they will unless the number of people choosing to use it increases dramatically.

                     

                    How could B&N go after someone modifying his/her own tablet/ereader for personal use and expect to win the case? Void the warranty and refuse to help them solve problems that might arise? Absolutely. But beyond that? I don't see what they can/could do.

                  • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?

                    Depends on what you mean by 'crack down'. Compulsive Reader's answer makes the most sense to me.

                     

                    There's not much they can do legally. They can't really crack down because there's always some new way to circumvent checks.

                     

                    What's your concern? That CN mod would stop working on your Nook. That's very unlikely.

                    • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?
                      patgolfneb
                      I am not saying I agree, just what the current law is. In general business has aggressively lobbied for laws protecting business and business owned intellectual property. I find it odd that people who mod their devices assume the law is in their favor, that some basic right is involved. Clearly the body of law does not support this at this time. How we feel about it doesn't make it so.
                        • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?
                          compulsivereaderTX
                          I can not think of a single item or piece of work that can not be customied, altered or even destroyed by the purchaser. And then sold by said purchaser as long as the seller is upfront that it is not an original or try to pass it off as an original. Example: cars, dolls, altered art, etc. I've taken barbies, modified them and sold them for hundreds of dollars at the same doll show, across the aisle from the Mattel booth. And had them complimentmy work. As long asi don' t use their name, try to pass it off as a mattel product or pretend that I created the barbie I uses, my ass is covered. So, basically, I have every reason to believe I have the right to modify my device for my own personal use.
                        • Re: Will BN ever crack down on CN mod? Could it?

                          There are a lot of regulations about it, and others have posted very good arguments for and against.

                           

                          Usually, any prosecution for this would be in the case of active theft of content.  In most cases, B&N wouldn't even be able to tell what you are doing.

                           

                          I was just thinking about the legal CYA that a lot of companies are doing.  Buried in the fine print of the "contract" you have when you buy a lot of devices today, is the disclaimer that you don't actually "own" the software and content.  You are only "leasing" it.

                           

                          This is evident in the fact that you PAY for a book from B&N, but this is not allowed to be read in any non-B&N environment.  Kindle has the same issues.  Just my thoughts.