89 Replies Latest reply on Mar 23, 2012 9:40 AM by djbchoctaw

    BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

      I was so excited with my new Nook purchase but it has been nothing but trouble. I was only able to connect with my WiFi at home twice to download books; both times I had to call technical support because it wouldn't connect. I was not able to take my Nook on vacation to read all the books I had purchased and were sitting in my B&N library - I couldn't even download them via a USB port.Once I got home and recharged my battery, the screen froze "updating software".  The screen was still frozen three days later when I mailed it back to B&N for a replacement.

       

      My new Nook won't advance past the "Connect" button. It stores no information, will not connect to anything and the Customer Service Rep at technical support suggested I go to McDonalds last night at 10PM to see if I could connect with their wireless. His Supervisor suggested the same thing.

       

      This device is a  POC and I will not be using the second return address label they sent me last night to replace this defective device with a third. I will cut my losses and go buy a Kindel from Amazon.com and be  happy to have something that works.

       

      My advice to everyone is to NEVER BUY THIS PRODUCT. They won't even refund your money if it is after 14 days, that should have told me what their confidence in their own product was.  

        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

          Enjoy your Kindle

          • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
            gandalf1369

            My God!!  They really do come out of the woodwork every couple of months or so . . . . :smileyvery-happy:

             

              • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                AND THERE YOU ARE!
                gandalf1369 wrote:

                My God!!  They really do come out of the woodwork every couple of months or so . . . . :smileyvery-happy:

                 


                 

                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                  Josienjoe

                  gandalf1369 wrote:

                  My God!!  They really do come out of the woodwork every couple of months or so . . . . :smileyvery-happy:

                   


                  That they do.  Had to give you laurels for that one.

                  • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                    bklvr896

                    gandalf1369 wrote:

                    My God!!  They really do come out of the woodwork every couple of months or so . . . . :smileyvery-happy:

                     


                    Yes they do, I saw this yesterday and made a decision it wasn't worth the effort to post a reply and the poster probably wouldn't be back to read it.


                    But, I have an N1E that I've had since January 2010 and I just got a Nook Color.  I've completely enjoyed having the N1E and haven't had any problems, the NookColor, so far, working great, looks great, it was refurbished from the Buy.com sale and you can't even tell it was ever used, if it was.

                  • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                    LouCB wrote:

                    I was so excited with my new Nook purchase but it has been nothing but trouble. I was only able to connect with my WiFi at home twice to download books; both times I had to call technical support because it wouldn't connect. I was not able to take my Nook on vacation to read all the books I had purchased and were sitting in my B&N library - I couldn't even download them via a USB port.Once I got home and recharged my battery, the screen froze "updating software".  The screen was still frozen three days later when I mailed it back to B&N for a replacement.

                     

                    My new Nook won't advance past the "Connect" button. It stores no information, will not connect to anything and the Customer Service Rep at technical support suggested I go to McDonalds last night at 10PM to see if I could connect with their wireless. His Supervisor suggested the same thing.

                     

                    This device is a  POC and I will not be using the second return address label they sent me last night to replace this defective device with a third. I will cut my losses and go buy a Kindel from Amazon.com and be  happy to have something that works.

                     

                    My advice to everyone is to NEVER BUY THIS PRODUCT. They won't even refund your money if it is after 14 days, that should have told me what their confidence in their own product was.  


                    I understand that you are unhappy, but the folks here do try to help.  SO, in that light:

                     

                    You don't say which Nook you bought.  Getting you a potential solution really depends on knowing what you have.  I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise that you have a Simple Touch, your home home network is the 'N' version of WiFi.  The issue here is that when 'N' is a somewhat new standard and is still having some growing pains.  Try setting your wireless router to G and see what happens.  The reason you were told to go to McD was that their WiFi is most likely 'B' or 'G' which is far more likely to work than 'N' if you are having trouble.

                     

                    As far as expecting a refund after the stated 14 day trial period, well, that trial does have a term of 14 days clearly stated.  

                     

                    If you do go Kindle, enjoy it!

                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                      LouCB wrote:

                      I was so excited with my new Nook purchase but it has been nothing but trouble. I was only able to connect with my WiFi at home twice to download books; both times I had to call technical support because it wouldn't connect. I was not able to take my Nook on vacation to read all the books I had purchased and were sitting in my B&N library - I couldn't even download them via a USB port.Once I got home and recharged my battery, the screen froze "updating software".  The screen was still frozen three days later when I mailed it back to B&N for a replacement.

                       

                      My new Nook won't advance past the "Connect" button. It stores no information, will not connect to anything and the Customer Service Rep at technical support suggested I go to McDonalds last night at 10PM to see if I could connect with their wireless. His Supervisor suggested the same thing.

                       

                      This device is a  POC and I will not be using the second return address label they sent me last night to replace this defective device with a third. I will cut my losses and go buy a Kindel from Amazon.com and be  happy to have something that works.

                       

                      My advice to everyone is to NEVER BUY THIS PRODUCT. They won't even refund your money if it is after 14 days, that should have told me what their confidence in their own product was.  


                      I guess it never occured to you to ask us for help before you ranted... Calm down... Take a breath... Now... What Nook do you have? What routeer are you trying to connect thru? We are here to try to help.

                       

                       

                      • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                        Josienjoe

                        LouCB wrote:

                        I was so excited with my new Nook purchase but it has been nothing but trouble. I was only able to connect with my WiFi at home twice to download books; both times I had to call technical support because it wouldn't connect. I was not able to take my Nook on vacation to read all the books I had purchased and were sitting in my B&N library - I couldn't even download them via a USB port.Once I got home and recharged my battery, the screen froze "updating software".  The screen was still frozen three days later when I mailed it back to B&N for a replacement.

                         

                        My new Nook won't advance past the "Connect" button. It stores no information, will not connect to anything and the Customer Service Rep at technical support suggested I go to McDonalds last night at 10PM to see if I could connect with their wireless. His Supervisor suggested the same thing.

                         

                        This device is a  POC and I will not be using the second return address label they sent me last night to replace this defective device with a third. I will cut my losses and go buy a Kindel from Amazon.com and be  happy to have something that works.

                         

                        My advice to everyone is to NEVER BUY THIS PRODUCT. They won't even refund your money if it is after 14 days, that should have told me what their confidence in their own product was.  


                        Which nook did you buy?

                        Did you buy from a B&N store?

                        Were you able to register the nook?

                        Did you take it to B&N to see if you could connect there?  (if you could connect at a B&N, the wifi problem is NOT the nook, but something in your home setup)

                        Just because you may, may, have gotten a defective nook does not mean the nook is a POC.

                        14 days is plenty of time to determine if you want something or not.

                         

                        Enjoy your Kindel (Kindle)

                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                          Yeah Here is my review of the service you get from Barns and noble customer service. http://www.knittingwitholof.com/2011/12/nook-users-beware-nook-review.html

                           

                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                              Byteguy

                              Olof wrote:

                              Yeah Here is my review of the service you get from Barns and noble customer service. http://www.knittingwitholof.com/2011/12/nook-users-beware-nook-review.html

                               


                              Don't bother, it's an uneducated rant that doesn't even have carriage returns so it's difficult to read at multiple levels.

                               

                              1) She assumes that she "OWNS" a book once she buys it.  Sorry, all you are buying is a license to read the book on certain devices.  This is the same with all ebooks and even all music files you buy from iTunes or other legal services.  Read the agreements.

                               

                              2) She assumes she can "pay the difference" and get upgraded to a hard-copy of the book.  B&N couldn't do that if they wanted to; the publishers won't allow it.

                               

                              3) Wouldn't give an updated credit card to get an updated copy of the ebook file and solve the whole problem.  This is REQUIRED for B&N copy protection.  That protection is REQUIRED by the publishers. B&N has to protect the ebook file, they don't get a choice.

                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                  AlanNJ

                                  Apparently out of all the reading she has done she missed the letters "DRM"...

                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                      I never bought the licensing poppycock myself, which is why I was reticent to get into ebooks for a while. I bought it, and should be able to do whatever I damn well please with it, same as my other bought-and-paid-for digital media, without worrying about vendors revoking my license to their work on a whim.

                                       

                                      But BN DRM is just as easy or easier to break than Kindle DRM - google is your friend - which is part of the reason I was so keen on getting a Nook, too. If ever bn gets out of the ebook game - they are the underdogs, after all, and to my knowledge are still unprofitable - I have a DRM-free copy of each of my nook books to fall back on.

                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                          It's a shame that publishers make criminals out of otherwise-honest people with these stupid DRM schemes. The pirates know how to get around them...or scan print copies...so DRM doesn't even slow piracy down, but honest people who bought the book can't back it up, etc.

                                           

                                          I have a book out there as an author, and I chose the "no-DRM" option. Lots of indie authors do the same. I hope (as a reader) that the big publishers figure out that DRM is costing them sales, but (as an author) I hope they keep using it and charging too much for ebooks and driving people to the indies like me! :smileyhappy:

                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                              keriflur

                                              Jan_Strnad wrote:

                                              It's a shame that publishers make criminals out of otherwise-honest people with these stupid DRM schemes. The pirates know how to get around them...or scan print copies...so DRM doesn't even slow piracy down, but honest people who bought the book can't back it up, etc.

                                               

                                              I have a book out there as an author, and I chose the "no-DRM" option. Lots of indie authors do the same. I hope (as a reader) that the big publishers figure out that DRM is costing them sales, but (as an author) I hope they keep using it and charging too much for ebooks and driving people to the indies like me! :smileyhappy:


                                              Did you choose a non-DRM anti-theft option, like watermarking?  Just curious.

                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                          The_Nookster

                                          ByteGuy said in part..

                                          "She assumes that she "OWNS" a book once she buys it."

                                          -----------------------------------------------------------

                                          If I rent something, lease something, borrow something, etc. something.. I don't own it and realize/know it's not mine to do with what I want.  But on the other hand..... SORRY!

                                          When I "BUY" something, I OWN IT!!  And when I OWN it, that gives me the right to do with it what I want.

                                          If the next door neighbor "SELLS" me a loaf of home made bread, I OWN IT!  Owning it gives me the right to make whatever type of sandwich I want without the interference of that same neighbor telling me otherwise.

                                          The same goes for e-books.  When I pay money $$$ for it.. I OWN IT!

                                          -----------------------------------------------------------

                                          ByteGuy went on to say..

                                          "Sorry, all you are buying is a license to read the book on certain devices."


                                          -----------------------------------------------------------

                                          Purchasing a book to read.. and renting/licensing that same book to read is two different things all together.

                                          In my life there are only three (3) "LICENSES" that I buy.. (one of which the Constitution and I disagree/feel we shouldn't have to be licensed to do.)  A drivers license, my vehicles license (plate).. and my LCP/CW license.  (I'll let you figure out which one of the three me and the Constitution disagree with.)

                                          The above is why I download and SAVE all my e-books to my computer before downloading them to my ST.

                                          The_Nookster

                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                              nlstein
                                              People continue to not understand how getting a book or recording of music digitally works. You DON'T own the book or music. You own the right to play it or read it for your own entertainment. This is standard stuff on items with DRM (digital rights management). If you don't like it try to get the law changed but understand what is going on. The ownership "rights" to the music or book remain with the copyright owner and do not pass to you. Don't like it? Don't buy it! It's always been this way.
                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                  nlstein wrote:
                                                  People continue to not understand how getting a book or recording of music digitally works. You DON'T own the book or music. You own the right to play it or read it for your own entertainment. This is standard stuff on items with DRM (digital rights management). If you don't like it try to get the law changed but understand what is going on. The ownership "rights" to the music or book remain with the copyright owner and do not pass to you. Don't like it? Don't buy it! It's always been this way.

                                                  I'm not sure if it's a matter of people not understanding as much as people not accepting digital media restrictions.  You are correct about the terms of the agreement and changing it if it is in some way too restrictive or illegal.

                                                   

                                                  I can see both sides of the issue.  On one hand, you have knowingly purchased the "limited right" to read and store an eBook and therefore have no real gripe with what you agreed to (even if not totally willingly because there is no option other than to forego the product): on the other hand you have been limited in such a way as you would not have been had the same copyrighted intellectual material been purchased in print format.

                                                   

                                                  So the difference in how copyrighted material may be used by the consumer is controlled by the media in which it is recorded.  From a legal position, it seems that the media used to record copyrighted material should not change the features of the copyright: ownership and protection.  From a practical and marketing position, the media makes a difference in the ability to violate the copyright protection in that electronic media is easier to reproduce and transmit.

                                                   

                                                  Authors, publishers and booksellers obviously want to reduce pirating to the lowest level possible.  In doing so, have they "extended" the meaning and force of copyright to an supportable degree by introducing limits on the use, storage and transfer of digital media?  Does the fact that the intellectual property is in electronic format afford it such new and limiting protections (as opposed to printed material), that it denies reasonable and customary use to legal purchasers?  I think these are valid questions and will probably play out in the courts as the media matures,

                                                   

                                                  On the issue of pirating, there are questions related to the accuracy publishers' claims of the amount of this nefarious activity that actually takes place. Also, there is the question of whether each person that pirates a book, or one who gets a copy of the pirated book would have purchased it if the pirated version was not available. The publishers' claims of damage or loss are only meaningful to the extent that each pirated copy would otherwise have been a sale.  Do we know the exact correlation of pirated books to actual lost sales?

                                                   

                                                  I am not condoning pirating, or any other violation of copyright, but I do wonder how accurate the figures from the publishing community are and whether the numbers, if accurate or not, relate to actual lost sales on a one to one ratio.

                                                   

                                                  Much to consider, but I think I see a valid complaint by readers who do not wish to "gain" by copyright violation but who only want to be able to do with legally purchased electronic book media what they can do with legally purchased print media.  Is the legal concept of copyright protection different for eBooks than it is for print books: not the practical methods of enforcement and protections, but the legal concept that is being afforded to copyright holders?  If it is, I think DRM goes too far in limiting consumers and might not withstand future legal challanges.  IMHO

                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                  Byteguy

                                                  The_Nookster wrote:

                                                  ...
                                                  In my life there are only three (3) "LICENSES" that I buy.. (one of which the Constitution and I disagree/feel we shouldn't have to be licensed to do.)  A drivers license, my vehicles license (plate).. and my LCP/CW license.  (I'll let you figure out which one of the three me and the Constitution disagree with.)
                                                  ...


                                                  There's a reason that the screens you see every time you load a piece of software or buy a song or buy a book are called EULAs.  That stands for "End-User Licensing Agreement".

                                                   

                                                  You own a lot less than you think you do.  You don't own the Windows on your computer (or iOS if you're Mac), you don't own ANY of the software that came pre-installed or any that you paid for.  You don't own a single song from iTunes.  You don't own a single e-book.

                                                   

                                                  Every time, you agreed and accepted that you just purchased a license to run/read/listen.

                                                   

                                                  Please, don't get me wrong.  I, personally, do not like how little "ownership" we end up with.  But, that's how it is.  The ones I don't trust or don't like, I don't buy from.  And, when I buy, like you, I do my best to backup so I am a little more of a master of my own fate.

                                                   

                                                  Personally, I avoided purchasing any songs on iTunes until they finally removed their strict copy protection that prevented me from making backups.  I still won't buy movies from them.

                                                   

                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                      nlstein

                                                      I have no argument with what you've said.

                                                       

                                                      My only comment is that "Ownership" should, IMHO, remain with the creator of the item and not pass to someone who purchases it for his/her use.

                                                       

                                                      Not "owning" the music on the CD that I bought is fine as long as I retain the right to make a backup for archivel porposes in case the orginal copy goes bad. I have that right for ALL of my digital items (with or without DRM on them) and that makes me happy.

                                                       

                                                      I assure you that my Time Machine backups (yes, I use a Mac) of books, movies and songs that I "buy" from iTunes will play just fine once they are re-loaded properly. 

                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                          nlstein wrote:

                                                          I have no argument with what you've said.

                                                           

                                                          My only comment is that "Ownership" should, IMHO, remain with the creator of the item and not pass to someone who purchases it for his/her use.

                                                           

                                                          Not "owning" the music on the CD that I bought is fine as long as I retain the right to make a backup for archivel porposes in case the orginal copy goes bad. I have that right for ALL of my digital items (with or without DRM on them) and that makes me happy.

                                                           

                                                          I assure you that my Time Machine backups (yes, I use a Mac) of books, movies and songs that I "buy" from iTunes will play just fine once they are re-loaded properly. 


                                                          You make some excellent points and a careful reading of your comments has made me think of, for me, what makes this whole "argument" about rights and ownership clearer in my mind.

                                                          I think some of us have used "ownership" and "rights" with significantly different meanings and have yet seemed to let them appear to be equivalent.  Like you mentioned, the "ownership" of the intellectual or artistic material in the case of books and music respectively, should remain with the copyright holder. The "rights" granted to, and protected of, the copyright holder (and his/her legally designated agents, if any exist) should likewise remain with that copyright holder, except as where explicitly delegated by that holder in whatever limited or unrestricted fashion as the holder deems acceptable, or more likely, profitable.

                                                          What I think some of us might be doing is unintentionally mixing up the true "ownership" of the intellectual/artistic material with the limited "ownership", if you will, of a copy of that material. The difference, at least in MHO, is that the one is true ownership of the intellectual/artistic property as we probably can all agree on, and all that goes with it, and the other is a limited but, we would hope and desire, non-restrictive "ownership" of our copy of the material. The copy "owner" seemingly, in these discussions at least, desires to be able to use and/or dispose of his/her copy as (s)he sees fit, as long as it doesn't usurp the granted rights and protections of the copyright holder. The implementation of the DRM restrictions seem to many in these discussions to conflict with this desire, and grant the copyright holder, or more accurately his/her agents, too much probably unintended control of the copy as realtes to the more "traditional" copyright powers and protections.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                  The_Nookster

                                                  After reading all the posts here, I've come up with a interesting situational question, which is..

                                                   

                                                  If I purchase a "e-book", legally I can't give anyone a copy for them to read.. right?  That means whoever I would have given a copy to needs to purchase a copy of their own to download and legally read off of their Nook.

                                                   

                                                  But, I can hand my Nook to any of several people.. and those same people can then legally read the story that I paid for.

                                                   

                                                  So the question is.. "what LEGALLY prevents me from doing so?"  NOTHING!!

                                                   

                                                  With this legally being the case, what's the difference then, from having the story read off of my Nook.. or, giving those same "anyones" a copy?  The original author or store still isn't going receive any more money either way.

                                                   

                                                  Ahhhhh.. y'all see the point I'm coming from?  Interesting.. Yes?

                                                   

                                                  The_Nookster

                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                      nlstein
                                                      One way only ONE copy exists. The other (not legal) way more than one copy exists while only one was paid for. And remember, some books are "lendable" for a limited time.
                                                      • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                        bklvr896

                                                        The_Nookster wrote:

                                                        After reading all the posts here, I've come up with a interesting situational question, which is..

                                                         

                                                        If I purchase a "e-book", legally I can't give anyone a copy for them to read.. right?  That means whoever I would have given a copy to needs to purchase a copy of their own to download and legally read off of their Nook.

                                                         

                                                        But, I can hand my Nook to any of several people.. and those same people can then legally read the story that I paid for.

                                                         

                                                        So the question is.. "what LEGALLY prevents me from doing so?"  NOTHING!!

                                                         

                                                        With this legally being the case, what's the difference then, from having the story read off of my Nook.. or, giving those same "anyones" a copy?  The original author or store still isn't going receive any more money either way.

                                                         

                                                        Ahhhhh.. y'all see the point I'm coming from?  Interesting.. Yes?

                                                         

                                                        The_Nookster


                                                        Because if you hand them your Nook, you can only hand it to one person at a time, so  only one person can be reading that book, the person with the Nook.  With the file, you could give it to several people and have multiple people reading simultaneously.  As opposed to you buying the eBook, giving a copy to a friend, and both reading it at the same time.  And then the friend gives a copy to a friend and so on.  It's unlikely, even if you're willing to let someone else use your Nook, that you'd be willing to let them loan it to a friend.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                          kamas716

                                                          The_Nookster wrote:

                                                          After reading all the posts here, I've come up with a interesting situational question, which is..

                                                           

                                                          If I purchase a "e-book", legally I can't give anyone a copy for them to read.. right?  That means whoever I would have given a copy to needs to purchase a copy of their own to download and legally read off of their Nook.

                                                           

                                                          But, I can hand my Nook to any of several people.. and those same people can then legally read the story that I paid for.

                                                           

                                                          So the question is.. "what LEGALLY prevents me from doing so?"  NOTHING!!

                                                           

                                                          With this legally being the case, what's the difference then, from having the story read off of my Nook.. or, giving those same "anyones" a copy?  The original author or store still isn't going receive any more money either way.

                                                           

                                                          Ahhhhh.. y'all see the point I'm coming from?  Interesting.. Yes?

                                                           

                                                          The_Nookster


                                                          It's much like a Restraining/Protection order.  It doesn't actually stop anyone from doing anything, it just provides consequences if you get caught.

                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                              kamas716 wrote:

                                                              The_Nookster wrote:

                                                              After reading all the posts here, I've come up with a interesting situational question, which is..

                                                               

                                                              If I purchase a "e-book", legally I can't give anyone a copy for them to read.. right?  That means whoever I would have given a copy to needs to purchase a copy of their own to download and legally read off of their Nook.

                                                               

                                                              But, I can hand my Nook to any of several people.. and those same people can then legally read the story that I paid for.

                                                               

                                                              So the question is.. "what LEGALLY prevents me from doing so?"  NOTHING!!

                                                               

                                                              With this legally being the case, what's the difference then, from having the story read off of my Nook.. or, giving those same "anyones" a copy?  The original author or store still isn't going receive any more money either way.

                                                               

                                                              Ahhhhh.. y'all see the point I'm coming from?  Interesting.. Yes?

                                                               

                                                              The_Nookster


                                                              It's much like a Restraining/Protection order.  It doesn't actually stop anyone from doing anything, it just provides consequences if you get caught.


                                                              Love your analogy!:smileylol:

                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                  nlstein

                                                                  Maybe it's just me but I don't understand why this is still being talked about.

                                                                   

                                                                  ONLY one copy of a copyrighted book (or any othe material such as music) may exist at one time (except in some cases of backups of one's own item for secutrity). You could lend your nook to anyone to read a book you bought the rights to read, but you can't make a NOT PAID FOR copy for anyone else. It's simply theft!

                                                                   

                                                                  Let's end this nonsense. We all know what it right and what is wrong.

                                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                      nlstein wrote:

                                                                      Maybe it's just me but I don't understand why this is still being talked about.

                                                                       

                                                                      ONLY one copy of a copyrighted book (or any othe material such as music) may exist at one time (except in some cases of backups of one's own item for secutrity). You could lend your nook to anyone to read a book you bought the rights to read, but you can't make a NOT PAID FOR copy for anyone else. It's simply theft!

                                                                       

                                                                      Let's end this nonsense. We all know what it right and what is wrong.


                                                                      "You could lend your nook to anyone to read a book you bought the rights to read..."
                                                                      Correct, but then you would not be able to read any other ebooks that you legally "bought the rights to read" that were on your Nook.  You would have to wait to get your Nook back. Now do you "understand why this is being talked about"? Some of us don't think this is "nonsense" at all, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. As far as "all know[ing] what is right and wrong", there is disagreement on that issue: that is why "this is still being talked about."
                                                                      It's known as an exchange of ideas.  I for one do not consider that "nonsense."

                                                                       

                                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                          nlstein

                                                                          That is certainly your opinion.

                                                                           

                                                                          You knew the rules and the law when you bought the nook. If you want to lend your nook to someone to read you're right, you'll be without your nook (although there are some lendable books), but again you knew the rules when you bought your nook. If you didn't, shame on you. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse. If you did know and now don't like it, fight to have the law changed (good luck).

                                                                           

                                                                          Taking up our time discussing the merits of pirating is a waste of bandwidth.

                                                                           

                                                                          Again, if you now don't like the rules that you should have knoewn when you bought the nook, fight to change the law - but don't try to convinvce me that it is or should be okay - it isn't and the law says the same thing.

                                                                           

                                                                          I don't mean to sound nasty. I simple don't agree with the attitude that says pirating is or should be okay. And by the way, thinking that it might be okay is indeed nonsense - there is no better word for it.

                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                              nlstein wrote:

                                                                              That is certainly your opinion.

                                                                               

                                                                              You knew the rules and the law when you bought the nook. If you want to lend your nook to someone to read you're right, you'll be without your nook (although there are some lendable books), but again you knew the rules when you bought your nook. If you didn't, shame on you. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse. If you did know and now don't like it, fight to have the law changed (good luck).

                                                                               

                                                                              Taking up our time discussing the merits of pirating is a waste of bandwidth.

                                                                               

                                                                              Again, if you now don't like the rules that you should have knoewn when you bought the nook, fight to change the law - but don't try to convinvce me that it is or should be okay - it isn't and the law says the same thing.

                                                                               

                                                                              I don't mean to sound nasty. I simple don't agree with the attitude that says pirating is or should be okay. And by the way, thinking that it might be okay is indeed nonsense - there is no better word for it.


                                                                              First, let me say that you should be informed before you imply or insinuate what someone's position is regarding illegal activities.  If you have read any of my posts, you would see that I am NOT in favor of pirating by myself or anyone else. I also AM in favor of changing laws that I feel are overly restrictive or "unfair", just as you yourself have suggested.

                                                                               

                                                                              Your comment about SOME books being lendable is an example of what some of us are discussing about the restrictions on electronic media that is not present with printed media notwithstanding the  same copyright protections.  Why only SOME books, and why only ONE lending allowed per book.

                                                                               

                                                                              As far as knowing the rules, that is exactly what much of this discussion is about - the rules, and if we think they need to be changed or if we would benefit from change.

                                                                               

                                                                              The idea of "waste of bandwidth" could be applied by anyone who was not interested in, or does not understand ANY topic.  The purpose of the forum is to exchange ideas: and yes, that means even ones you don't agree with.  Read carefully before you accuse folks of "discussing the merits of pirating." What I believe a lot of us are discussing is the concept of DRM and copyright imposing DIFFERENT controls on electronic media as opposed to printed media, certainly NOT the merits of pirating. One of the issues vis a vis electronic media is that of the very restrictions NOT associated with printed media, and how prevalent the new restrictions are to a burgeoning new media and those restrictions' impact on the consumer's use, access and cost of what might possibly be the prevalent media of the near future. As such, I don't find discussions on the subject to be "a waste of bandwidth."

                                                                               

                                                                              Your comment "Taking up our time..." seems to me to imply that YOU feel that you have some superior "ownership" of the forum and its bandwidth and time of usage.  Shame on me; I never saw that in the terms of usage.

                                                                               

                                                                              Perhaps you would do well to see what people are actually saying instead of jumping to unfounded conclusions, insulting and falsely accusing people of supporting pirating.

                                                                               

                                                                              Have a nice day.:smileyhappy:

                                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                  nlstein

                                                                                  TO Fred011:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Well, I guess you told me! Sorry if I pissed you off! I thought I was informed but I guess you feel I am not. I for one am happy with the "rules" the way they are. You want to change them - fine.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I read everyone's (not just your) messages and it sure sounded to me like a lot of people would be a lot happier if they could pirate legally (a odd way of saying it, I know). If you aren't or wouldn't be - good for you.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  And yes, I feel that this whole discussion is a waste of time and bandwidth. Everyone knows (or should know) the current rules and talking about changing them here is in my mined a waste of time. Write to your congressman and try to get them to change the law - and good luck!.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  No, I don't own this board and I didn't think I was speaking for everyone. If you thought I was, I'm sorry you misunderstood.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  BTW, the digital age has and will continue to change things. The ideas that applied to printed material no longer apply. Record companies learned that the hard way, and publishers are now learning the same thing. It's time for the publishers to re-think their business model.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  One last thing. With all of this rigorous indignation why has no one mentioned that Apple came along and basically forced all the publishers to rise prices? I'm more pissed at that then the inability of more than one person to read my copy of a book.

                                                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                                      nlstein wrote:

                                                                                      TO Fred011:

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Well, I guess you told me! Sorry if I pissed you off! I thought I was informed but I guess you feel I am not. I for one am happy with the "rules" the way they are. You want to change them - fine.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I read everyone's (not just your) messages and it sure sounded to me like a lot of people would be a lot happier if they could pirate legally (a odd way of saying it, I know). If you aren't or wouldn't be - good for you.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      And yes, I feel that this whole discussion is a waste of time and bandwidth. Everyone knows (or should know) the current rules and talking about changing them here is in my mined a waste of time. Write to your congressman and try to get them to change the law - and good luck!.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      No, I don't own this board and I didn't think I was speaking for everyone. If you thought I was, I'm sorry you misunderstood.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      BTW, the digital age has and will continue to change things. The ideas that applied to printed material no longer apply. Record companies learned that the hard way, and publishers are now learning the same thing. It's time for the publishers to re-think their business model.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      One last thing. With all of this rigorous indignation why has no one mentioned that Apple came along and basically forced all the publishers to rise prices? I'm more pissed at that then the inability of more than one person to read my copy of a book.


                                                                                      We will just have to disagree on what we think the rules should be: that's fine, we are all entitled to our opinion.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      "Everyone knows (or should know) the current rules and talking about changing them here is in my mined a waste of time. Write to your congressman and try to get them to change the law - and good luck!."

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Other than the logic fallacy of "everyone knows", did it ever occur to you that perhaps sharing ideas of how to change/improve what people don't like might be a good starting point for actually getting something done?  Perhaps in formulating ideas to "write to your congressman" about?

                                                                                       

                                                                                      If you are happy, why not just ignore the posts of folks who are discussing an issue of no interest to you instead of criticizing those who post what might be on their minds?

                                                                                       

                                                                                      As for Apple's activities in conjunction with publishers vis a vis prices and antitrust laws, there are plenty of very insightful posts on the subjects scattered on the forum.

                                                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                          nlstein
                                                                                          Everyone should know the rules and ignorance of the law (and therefore the rules) is no excuse (excuse my legalize). The only reason I read this thread is to see what nonsense is being discussed. The people in the park in downtown NY and other cities have been voicing their many options for a long time and other than getting plenty of TV time I can't think of one thing they've accomplished. I present to you that this isn't the place to discuss what should or should not be done about the perceived problem - Congress and the courts are since this is purely a legal problem. I don't think (notice I said I) this is the place to discuss what this forum can't change. If it makes people feel good to vent about this here, fine. It's fine to share ideas but this is going no place. IMHO if you or any else here wants to get things changed - start a movement and lobby your Congressman. Complaining about it here will get nothing done.
                                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                              keriflur

                                                                                              nlstein wrote:
                                                                                              Everyone should know the rules and ignorance of the law (and therefore the rules) is no excuse (excuse my legalize).

                                                                                              Yes.  And this particular law (copyright) is in place for a very good reason.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              However, not everyone knows the rules, and not everyone understands why the rules are in place, and not everyone knows what they can do within the confines of the law.  And in some instances (DCMA) the meaning and definition of the law is in dispute.  IMO if someone has questions and wants to understand, there's no harm done (and quite possibly a lot of help) by discussing it.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              There are people who pirate because they see it as a victimless crime, or they feel like publishers are screwing them so they can screw the publishers right back, and so on with excuses as to why this behaviour is okay.  If discussing the why and how and the who (as in, who is being hurt) helps someone to understand better, to feel less good about pirating, then IMO discussing is the BEST thing we can do.

                                                                                              • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                deesy58

                                                                                                nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                Everyone should know the rules and ignorance of the law (and therefore the rules) is no excuse (excuse my legalize). The only reason I read this thread is to see what nonsense is being discussed. The people in the park in downtown NY and other cities have been voicing their many options for a long time and other than getting plenty of TV time I can't think of one thing they've accomplished. I present to you that this isn't the place to discuss what should or should not be done about the perceived problem - Congress and the courts are since this is purely a legal problem. I don't think (notice I said I) this is the place to discuss what this forum can't change. If it makes people feel good to vent about this here, fine. It's fine to share ideas but this is going no place. IMHO if you or any else here wants to get things changed - start a movement and lobby your Congressman. Complaining about it here will get nothing done.

                                                                                                Hmm.  Don't you think that it is places like this where people should form their opinions before entering the voting booth to elect their representatives in Congress?  Or should people vote in accordance with what they hear on the radio and see on television, much of which is nothing more than paid propaganda? 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                After an informative debate on a public forum, those who care sufficiently are certainly still free to write to their representatrives at any level of government, right?  So why stifle debate? 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                  • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                                                    Another useful reason for this and similar discussions here is to clarify the apparently rampant confusion between laws set by Congress and rules created by publishers. For example, if you want to be able to lend a NOOK book more than once in a lifetime, it won't do any good to lobby your congressperson to change the DMCA.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                      • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                        keriflur

                                                                                                        Sun_Cat wrote:

                                                                                                        Another useful reason for this and similar discussions here is to clarify the apparently rampant confusion between laws set by Congress and rules created by publishers. For example, if you want to be able to lend a NOOK book more than once in a lifetime, it won't do any good to lobby your congressperson to change the DMCA.

                                                                                                         


                                                                                                        Well, actually, if the DMCA changed to allow legal lending outside of the confines of the Lend Me system that the publishers have approved, the Lend Me program would be null and void, so...

                                                                                                          • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                            nlstein
                                                                                                            You guys keeps talking and writing about this issue. I understand what can and can't be legally done (and so should anyone that cares the educate themselves) and know talking about it here won't change anything or anyone's thinking. It feels like a circle j**k. The only thing it accomplishes is to make some people feel good. This forum seems to becpopulated by people who don't really understand the problem or the solution. It's simple. The problem is greed and the solution is to stop buying eBooks. The publishers will get the message soon enough. The recording industry learned. The book publishers will too. Think I'm simplifying it? Think I'm being silly? Read history (from real books) and learn. Or, you can complain here and get nothing done - but you'll feel good.
                                                                                                              • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                keriflur

                                                                                                                nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                You guys keeps talking and writing about this issue. I understand what can and can't be legally done (and so should anyone that cares the educate themselves) and know talking about it here won't change anything or anyone's thinking. It feels like a circle j**k. The only thing it accomplishes is to make some people feel good. This forum seems to becpopulated by people who don't really understand the problem or the solution. It's simple. The problem is greed and the solution is to stop buying eBooks. The publishers will get the message soon enough. The recording industry learned. The book publishers will too. Think I'm simplifying it? Think I'm being silly? Read history (from real books) and learn. Or, you can complain here and get nothing done - but you'll feel good.

                                                                                                                First off, you didn't answer my question.

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Second, if you don't want to read what's being said, and you don't want to participate, don't go into the thread.  Duh.

                                                                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                  deesy58

                                                                                                                  nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                  You guys keeps talking and writing about this issue. I understand what can and can't be legally done (and so should anyone that cares the educate themselves) and know talking about it here won't change anything or anyone's thinking. It feels like a circle j**k. The only thing it accomplishes is to make some people feel good. This forum seems to becpopulated by people who don't really understand the problem or the solution. It's simple. The problem is greed and the solution is to stop buying eBooks. The publishers will get the message soon enough. The recording industry learned. The book publishers will too. Think I'm simplifying it? Think I'm being silly? Read history (from real books) and learn. Or, you can complain here and get nothing done - but you'll feel good.

                                                                                                                  So amusing to see that you apparently know what a circle j**k feels like.   :smileylol:

                                                                                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                      nlstein
                                                                                                                      You kiss your mother with that mouth? I used the term to explain what's going on. Your comment is uncalled for and beneath everyone here. You should be ashamed.
                                                                                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                          deesy58

                                                                                                                          Digital Watermarking is not, IMO, the solution.  Digital watermarking can as easily be defeated as any other anti-piracy or anti-copying technology.  If enough profit is available, determined criminals will find a way to realize it.  As with other anti-piracy technologies, the willingness of the public to obey the law, and the ability of enforcement agencies to enforce the law, are the only ways to prevent unauthorized and illegal copying of protected "works." 

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          Note that, in the case of a physical watermark on paper, it doesn't prevent one from making a copy, it only allows one to see that the copy might have been made illegally.  No easy way to prevent illegal copying other than weird, low-contrasting color combinations, etc.  Tough to do with digital electronic files. 

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          As long as otherwise-honest citizens are willing to purchase stolen goods, there will be a thriving market and crime will be impossible to stamp out.  Don't believe it?  Take a look at e-Bay, or your local flea market.  How much of what is offered for sale has been stolen?  Nobody knows for sure. 

                                                                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                              keriflur

                                                                                                                              Ya_Ya wrote:

                                                                                                                              keriflur wrote:

                                                                                                                              If you can find this, I'd love to read it.  I don't currently know of any drawbacks that watermarking would present to consumers.


                                                                                                                              Here it is.

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              Rereading, I think the argument isn't nearly as well-made as I thought it was then or remember it being.

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              It basically boils down to "if you are hacked, you are responsible for the file that someone else distributes" and more concerning, that the watermark will probably contain some personal information you wouldn't want shared if someone hacked you...

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              Even then I thought watermarking was preferable to all of the current popular DRM schemes and rereading, I agree with myself.  :smileytongue: 


                                                                                                                              Agreed, I'm not impressed by this argument.  Frankly, if I'm hacked, I've got a lot more to worry about than whether my watermarked ebooks are going to go up on a torrent site.

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              Also, the writer is speculating about what information will be embedded into the ebook file.  The fact is that we don't actually know how Rowling is doing the watermarking.  It could be a hash that stays on file at Pottermore.  We just don't know.

                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                              deesy58 wrote:

                                                                                                                              Digital Watermarking is not, IMO, the solution.  Digital watermarking can as easily be defeated as any other anti-piracy or anti-copying technology.  If enough profit is available, determined criminals will find a way to realize it.  As with other anti-piracy technologies, the willingness of the public to obey the law, and the ability of enforcement agencies to enforce the law, are the only ways to prevent unauthorized and illegal copying of protected "works." 

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              Note that, in the case of a physical watermark on paper, it doesn't prevent one from making a copy, it only allows one to see that the copy might have been made illegally.  No easy way to prevent illegal copying other than weird, low-contrasting color combinations, etc.  Tough to do with digital electronic files. 

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              As long as otherwise-honest citizens are willing to purchase stolen goods, there will be a thriving market and crime will be impossible to stamp out.  Don't believe it?  Take a look at e-Bay, or your local flea market.  How much of what is offered for sale has been stolen?  Nobody knows for sure. 


                                                                                                                              Agreed, digital watermarking is not the solution.  However, I do feel that it's an improvement over the existing forms of DRM because it's less restrictive for the law-abiding consumer.  As a user of the file, I don't have to worry that my copy will not work on my next device, or if the popular format changes.  I don't have to worry that I have too many devices.  I can use *any* reader I want to read the file.  I have a lot less reason to strip DRM.

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              I would be willing to bet that it's really easy to remove the watermarking.  I'd bet it's as easy to remove as the more popular forms of DRM, all of which can be stripped in a matter of seconds with the right software.  So, as far as confounding criminals, it's no worse than the what we're currently seeing.

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              Basically, if it keeps the folks with morals from feeling like they're being punished, and is as effective as the other forms of DRM, I see it as an improvement.  Until an actual, working solution is found, if ever, I'll take the one that does the least harm.

                                                                                                                      • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                                                                        keriflur wrote:

                                                                                                                        Sun_Cat wrote:
                                                                                                                        Another useful reason for this and similar discussions here is to clarify the apparently rampant confusion between laws set by Congress and rules created by publishers. For example, if you want to be able to lend a NOOK book more than once in a lifetime, it won't do any good to lobby your congressperson to change the DMCA.

                                                                                                                        Well, actually, if the DMCA changed to allow legal lending outside of the confines of the Lend Me system that the publishers have approved, the Lend Me program would be null and void, so...


                                                                                                                        Okay, so it's more complex than I suggested. :catlol: I just meant that the publishers currently set the rules for the Lend Me program. They could allow 10 lifetime loans if they wanted to without having to change the DMCA. Or so I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong, or provide a better example of the distinction I was trying to highlight.

                                                                                                                          • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                            kamas716

                                                                                                                            Wow, did this thread explode today.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            First of all, I think places like this are the perfect place for citizens to get together and exchange their views about various topics.  If, after the debate they feel that the laws need to be modified or retracted, then they should contact their appropriate political representitive and press for a change.  And, if that representitive doesn't share the same view, there is always the option of running for office themselves.  But, things need to start somewhere.  And, these types of forums seem to be perfectly suited to altering perceptions and starting grass roots movements for change.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Second,while we all should know the law, it's nearly impossible for everyone to actually know all of the laws in the world we live.  Given how convoluted most laws are written, and in the legalese that is used to write them, most people don't know what the law actually says, let alone how it should be implemented.  If this weren't the case, most lawyers, judges and politicians would be out of a job.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Third,piracy will always be with us (unless we become a society without any right to copywrite works/ideas).  As soon as something is in place to restrict use, someone else will come up with a way around it.  It doesn't matter what the media is, there is a way to make a copy of it.  Some things require more expenditure of labor, but it's still there.  DRM isn't halting piracy, it's just making it harder for us law abiding citizens to use the products we've purchased.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Fourth, some pirated material is out there simply because it's not released in a format that people want.  I seem to recall that Star Wars was the most pirated DVD in the world at one time.  It wasn't because people wanted to give George Lucas the bird, but because he refused to release it in a popular and widely used format that his fans wanted to view it in.  I would guess that Harry Potter is similar.  To my thinking, people end up with pirated works for one of three reasons:

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            1. The work isn't in a format useable/likeable to them.  See Star Wars above.  (This also includes price).
                                                                                                                            2. The work isn't available in their area.
                                                                                                                            3. They just want free stuff.

                                                                                                                            I think most people who fall into categories 1 & 2 would be willing to pay for a legal copy if it were available at a reasonable cost.  The people in category 3 won't likely ever budge from that position.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            Finally, on a personal note, I would like to see the DCMA changed.  I think there are some problems with it. 

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            1. Length of copywrite is too long.  70 years AFTER the death of the author just seems ridiculous.  Most works are out of print after a couple of decades.  By keeping the copywrite so long there are wonderful works that have fallen by the wayside because they don't appeal to a wide enough audience for a publisher to get interested.  And, unless your Rowling or Clancy, or a corporation like Disney, your grandkids aren't going to benefit from such a lengthy copywrite protection.
                                                                                                                            2. Stripping DRM.  Once I purchase a copy of something, whether it be DTB, or a license for an eBook, I should be able to modify it in any way that I see fit for my own use.  If I have a Kindle and move to a Nook, I should be able to transfer my Kindle books to my Nook (or vice versa) without having to worry about whether some government entity will be breathing down my neck at some point.  Granted, as long as I'm keeping the file to myself the chances of getting caught are very slim, but it shouldn't be a question in the first place.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                  Ya_Ya

                                                                                                                  nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  One last thing. With all of this rigorous indignation why has no one mentioned that Apple came along and basically forced all the publishers to rise prices? I'm more pissed at that then the inability of more than one person to read my copy of a book.


                                                                                                                  Yet, you are still a self-professed "MacBoy."

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  Why should Apple care how angry people are with them as long as those angry people are still buying and using their products?  You can't make a retailer take notice unless they see a hit - or a very serious threat - to their bottom line.

                                                                                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                      nlstein

                                                                                                                      Ya, Ya:

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      Just because I'm "macboy" does not have to mean that I agree with EVERYTHING that Apple does. I like their products because "they just work: but I don't always agree with their policies and tactics. Don't get the two confused. I know it's easy when you're trying to embarrass someone.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      At least my computers all work all the time. If my refrigerator worked like a Windows PC I'd starve.

                                                                                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                          keriflur

                                                                                                                          nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                          At least my computers all work all the time. If my refrigerator worked like a Windows PC I'd starve.


                                                                                                                          Wow, and I've had the exact opposite experience.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          But, uh, this discussion isn't about Apple v. Microsoft, is it?  :smileysurprised:  So no need to get so defensive.

                                                                                                                          • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                            Ya_Ya

                                                                                                                            nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                            Don't get the two confused. I know it's easy when you're trying to embarrass someone.


                                                                                                                            I wasn't trying to embarrass anyone; I was pointing out that as long as people who strongly dislike a company's policies continue to give said company money, the company has little to no incentive to change a policy.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            By buying their computers "that just work" you tell Apple that you agree with them.  Even if you don't.

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            If I buy from Amazon, then I tell them I agree with their business practices, even if I don't.  If I buy from Walmart, then I tell them I agree with their anticompetitive, anti-EPA, anti-employee business practices, even if I don't...

                                                                                                                              • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                nlstein
                                                                                                                                So let me get this straight. I should buy computers that don't work because I don't agree with everything Apple does. Makes sense to me. BTW, I have written Apple on several occasions about some of their policies i do't like and prised them about their products that I do like. I even get email back from them. Have you evr written to Microsoft, HP or any other PC company? The idea of cutting my nose off to spite my face seems wrong to me. But hay, I've been told I am wrong by lots of people here. Just out of curiosity what brand of computer "should" I be using to be PC (excuse the pun)?
                                                                                                                                  • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                    nlstein
                                                                                                                                    Ya,Ya Please supply list of approved companies that I can buy from without upsetting you or the group as a whole. Seems to me from your post that most of the suggesful companies are off limits.
                                                                                                                                      • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                        deesy58

                                                                                                                                        nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                                        Ya,Ya Please supply list of approved companies that I can buy from without upsetting you or the group as a whole. Seems to me from your post that most of the suggesful companies are off limits.

                                                                                                                                        Could you be more specific?  What are you really asking Ya-Ya?  Is it a list of computer that you want?  Perhaps I could assist.

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        If it is a specific Operating System (OS), such as Snow Leopard, or Lion, that you wish to use, you have only a single choice: Apple Computer.  Those OS's are designed to be run on Apple hardware, only, and Apple hardware is designed to run only versions of Apple's OS.  No other combinations are available, AFAIK.

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        If it is a version of Windows that is desired, such as XP, Vista, Windows 7 or any of the various Windows Server Operating Systems, then you will have a myriad of choices.  Regardless of the brand of any or all of the particular components of the machine, you will have a choice of at least two different brands of CPU: Intel or AMD.  Any compatible motherboard can be used, and there are numerous options to choose from, all compatible with Windows.  Cases, Power Supplies, Graphics Controllers, HDDs, DVDs, etc., etc. are all compatible with Windows, and can be purchased at competitive prices from any number of suppliers.  The list is too long to print here, but you can find many of them at newegg.com, Best Buy stores, Dell Computers, TigerDirect.com, etc., etc.  Check them out!

                                                                                                                                          • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                                                                                            deesy58 wrote:

                                                                                                                                            If it is a specific Operating System (OS), such as Snow Leopard, or Lion, that you wish to use, you have only a single choice: Apple Computer.  Those OS's are designed to be run on Apple hardware, only, and Apple hardware is designed to run only versions of Apple's OS.  No other combinations are available, AFAIK.

                                                                                                                                            I'll just offer a small expansion to your knowledge base, then. :cathappy:

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            The hybrid of generic PC hardware running an official bought-and-paid-for Apple OS is usually referred to as a Hackintosh. Google that term and you'll find plenty of references. Here are a couple of examples from reputable sources:

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                              • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                deesy58

                                                                                                                                                Sun_Cat wrote:

                                                                                                                                                deesy58 wrote:

                                                                                                                                                If it is a specific Operating System (OS), such as Snow Leopard, or Lion, that you wish to use, you have only a single choice: Apple Computer.  Those OS's are designed to be run on Apple hardware, only, and Apple hardware is designed to run only versions of Apple's OS.  No other combinations are available, AFAIK.

                                                                                                                                                I'll just offer a small expansion to your knowledge base, then. :cathappy:

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                The hybrid of generic PC hardware running an official bought-and-paid-for Apple OS is usually referred to as a Hackintosh. Google that term and you'll find plenty of references. Here are a couple of examples from reputable sources:

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                I followed your advice and did a little research.  I learned that Apple was able to successfully prosecute litigation against a producer of Hackintosh computers.  I should clarify my comment to read: " No other legal combinations are available, AFAIK."  :smileyindifferent:

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Thanks for the information.  Of course, given the opportunity, somebody will try to hack almost anything:smileytongue:

                                                                                                                                          • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                            Ya_Ya

                                                                                                                                            nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                                            The idea of cutting my nose off to spite my face seems wrong to me. 

                                                                                                                                            I don't see it as cutting off my nose to spite my face.  I see it as spending my money with people who think deserve it.  I didn't tell you where to shop or not shop; I just said that companies see our patronage as approval of what they do. 

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Admittedly, I shop a lot of places where I think they could do things better; I only write-off companies off for things that seem like big deals to me.  Things that are a big deal to me aren't to you, and things that might be big deals to you are not to me.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            To me, Apple's policies are a big enough deal that I don't shop there.   (Not the agency model stuff, actually.)  I feel the same way about Walmart and Amazon.  I don't completely agree with Target's policies, but the things I don't like that they do aren't as big a deal (yet!) to me, so I still spend more money with them than I probably should...

                                                                                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                              deesy58

                                                                                                                                              nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                                              So let me get this straight. I should buy computers that don't work because I don't agree with everything Apple does. Makes sense to me. BTW, I have written Apple on several occasions about some of their policies i do't like and prised them about their products that I do like. I even get email back from them. Have you evr written to Microsoft, HP or any other PC company? The idea of cutting my nose off to spite my face seems wrong to me. But hay, I've been told I am wrong by lots of people here. Just out of curiosity what brand of computer "should" I be using to be PC (excuse the pun)?

                                                                                                                                              Your entire argument rests on a false premise: that Apple computers "work," and that some others do not "work."  The truth is, nobody would purchase and pay for a computer that did not work unless they needed a boat anchor.  :smileyhappy:

                                                                                                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                  nlstein

                                                                                                                                                  deesy58

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  We won't get into a contest (I hope) about who makes the most reliable computers. All of the testing labs, reports and surveys show Apple number one in reliability. If your computer works while running Windows - good for you but you are in the minority and lucky. If it's easy to install new add-on hardware and software and the computer doesn't crash and need to be re-booted a lot - great!

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  My premise is based on firm ground. You are right, people hope they are not buying a boat anchor but studies show Apple number owner in customer satisfaction - and that's a fact. I've been forced to run Windows machines at work for years and it's a constant hassle. Everyone knows it, even if they are afraid to admit it. Apple wouldn't be as big as it is if the stuff didn't work - unless you think they've fooled a whole bunch of people including the experts. A UNIX based OS simply is more reliable. Steve and Bill had the open vs.closed argument for years and the end result was that by controlling everything from end-to-end Apple gave its users a better experience. They actually got to use the stuff instead of baby sitting it.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Do I like ALL of Apple's policies - no. But I live with them. Usually, when a better way really works, Apple changes to it. In the mean time, since I'm not concerned about giving people copies of my stuff, I'll live with the policies that prevail.

                                                                                                                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                      nlstein

                                                                                                                                                      BTW, I've put a number of non-tech people on Apples that struggled with PCs and they ALL have been VERY happy. These are people that didn't know which way to screw in a light bulb. It seems that if all you want to do is actually use the darn thing to get things done Apple wins, I'm sure you'll disagree but that's how I (and a lot experts) see it.

                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                      As for the question someone else asked me about which computer I wanted to buy, they missed the whole point. I was remarking that some else here had written off a lot of companies because they didn't do thing they way they liked and I was wondering which stores and companies were OK since none of the usual players seemed to be.

                                                                                                                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                          deesy58

                                                                                                                                                          nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          BTW, I've put a number of non-tech people on Apples that struggled with PCs and they ALL have been VERY happy. These are people that didn't know which way to screw in a light bulb. It seems that if all you want to do is actually use the darn thing to get things done Apple wins, I'm sure you'll disagree but that's how I (and a lot experts) see it.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          As for the question someone else asked me about which computer I wanted to buy, they missed the whole point. I was remarking that some else here had written off a lot of companies because they didn't do thing they way they liked and I was wondering which stores and companies were OK since none of the usual players seemed to be.


                                                                                                                                                          Have you ever heard the old adage: "Use the right tool for the job"?  Computers are tools.  Some computers are more appropriate for some types of jobs than for others.  This isn't religion.  It is technology.  If Apple works best for your uses, then use Apple.  But don't denigrate a different technology just because you have chosen Apple. 

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Clearly, there some tasks for which Apple computers are not well-suited.  Just as clearly, Apple remains unmatched in other applications. 

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          As for your final paragraph, it appears that you had not made your point very well in your earlier post.  So sorry.  :smileysad:

                                                                                                                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                          keriflur

                                                                                                                                                          nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          We won't get into a contest (I hope) about who makes the most reliable computers. All of the testing labs, reports and surveys show Apple number one in reliability. If your computer works while running Windows - good for you but you are in the minority and lucky. If it's easy to install new add-on hardware and software and the computer doesn't crash and need to be re-booted a lot - great!

                                                                                                                                                          Emphasis mine.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Since you brought up testing labs, reports and surveys, what reports and surveys can you provide that prove that less than 50% of PCs work when running Windows?  Since your making that assertation and all. :smileywink:

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          FWIW, and granted I'm a test case of one, but I've had four computers since Windows XP was released (two are XP, two are Win7) and I've never experienced a crash on any of them.  In fact, I ran CS3 Photoshop on one of the netbooks with only 1gb of memory, so it's a miracle the thing never crashed.  I've also had another four work computers (not mine, but company owned) running XP and 7 and none of those have ever crashed either, so I'm 8 for 8 over here.

                                                                                                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                              nlstein

                                                                                                                                                              No, I won't provide the surveys. You can find them easily with Google. If you only want 50% of PCs to work I find that a poor number. I guess you don't. Like I said at the start, I don't want to go way off the subject. Some people hate Apple, some love them. That's what makes the world go around. And none of this has anything to do with watermarks, DRM or any other license issues. I know what I'm getting when I "buy" a book from B & N and others and I have two choices. Buy the item or don't. I've made my decision, you all can make your own. I also am well read and know which stores and manufactures have good policies (IMO) and which don't. I make my own mind up which to buy from and which to avoid, but I won't be hypercritical and tell myself a certain one is bad but I'll buy there anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                  keriflur

                                                                                                                                                                  nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                  No, I won't provide the surveys. You can find them easily with Google. If you only want 50% of PCs to work I find that a poor number. I guess you don't.


                                                                                                                                                                  Oh, you silly word-twister, you!  You said, and I quote:

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  "If your computer works while running Windows - good for you but you are in the minority and lucky."

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   To be in the minority would mean that over 50% of Windows computers don't work.  It's your statement, you should have to support it.  I'm not going to do your research to help you prove your point.  That would be a wild goose chase, because it doesn't exist, because you're wrong.  LOL.

                                                                                                                                                                  • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                    deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                    nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    No, I won't provide the surveys. You can find them easily with Google. If you only want 50% of PCs to work I find that a poor number. I guess you don't. Like I said at the start, I don't want to go way off the subject. Some people hate Apple, some love them. That's what makes the world go around. And none of this has anything to do with watermarks, DRM or any other license issues. I know what I'm getting when I "buy" a book from B & N and others and I have two choices. Buy the item or don't. I've made my decision, you all can make your own. I also am well read and know which stores and manufactures have good policies (IMO) and which don't. I make my own mind up which to buy from and which to avoid, but I won't be hypercritical and tell myself a certain one is bad but I'll buy there anyway.


                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry.  I beg to differ.  This doesn't appear to be the case.  You make strong, unsupported assertions that appear to be based on emotion. 

                                                                                                                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                  deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                  nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                  deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  We won't get into a contest (I hope) about who makes the most reliable computers. All of the testing labs, reports and surveys show Apple number one in reliability. If your computer works while running Windows - good for you but you are in the minority and lucky. If it's easy to install new add-on hardware and software and the computer doesn't crash and need to be re-booted a lot - great!

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  My premise is based on firm ground. You are right, people hope they are not buying a boat anchor but studies show Apple number owner in customer satisfaction - and that's a fact. I've been forced to run Windows machines at work for years and it's a constant hassle. Everyone knows it, even if they are afraid to admit it. Apple wouldn't be as big as it is if the stuff didn't work - unless you think they've fooled a whole bunch of people including the experts. A UNIX based OS simply is more reliable. Steve and Bill had the open vs.closed argument for years and the end result was that by controlling everything from end-to-end Apple gave its users a better experience. They actually got to use the stuff instead of baby sitting it.

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  Do I like ALL of Apple's policies - no. But I live with them. Usually, when a better way really works, Apple changes to it. In the mean time, since I'm not concerned about giving people copies of my stuff, I'll live with the policies that prevail.


                                                                                                                                                                  Hmm.  I think you might be missing my point.

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  I am, in no way, asserting that Windows is, or is not, more reliable than Mac OS.  They are both genuine operating systems (as opposed to simple graphical user interfaces placed on some other sort of system, like DOS).  Windows is not UNIX-based.  Mac OS is.  So is Linux.  Microsoft had a very great many reliability and stability issues with earlier versions of Windows, and that was, primarily, because they were still DOS-based.  Windows 2000 and Windows XP were the first genuine operating systems available to desktop and laptop PC users.  Most people no longer remember the meaning of the term "BSOD" (Blue Screen of Death). 

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  I do not know the source of your "testing labs, reports and surveys" because you have not chosen to share them.  I would not be at all surprised, however, to learn that they were either outdated or biased, or both.  

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  On what do you base your assertion that I am "lucky" if my Windows-based computer runs reliably?  You are aware, are you not, that Microsoft also supplies "server" versions of its operating system software, and that software runs very reliably and securely hosting Web sites, databases and other applications?  You are also aware, I assume, that Apple made an abortive attempt to enter the server market, but has now abandoned that market?  In the arena of "big iron" Apple doesn't even play.  That game is dominated by UNIX, Linux and Windows. 

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  Surveys also show that Mercedes Benz owners are also extremely satisfied with their purchases, but they pay extra for that satisfaction.  We can't purchase a Mercedes for the same price that we can purchase a Toyota or a Ford.  Windows computer owners, on average, pay less for their computers than Apple owners, correct?  If one doesn't receive a benefit of some sort in return for spending additional moneys, why would anybody do it? 

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  You say that: "Everyone knows it, even if they are afraid to admit it."  That's just unfounded and arrogant.  Everyone does NOT know any such thing, but your words are typical of somebody with an emotional attachment to a technology, and a mind completely closed to any ideas that are not in agreement with preconceived notions.  That's just sad.

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  It is not clear what you mean when you say: "Steve and Bill had the open vs.closed argument for years and the end result was that by controlling everything from end-to-end Apple gave its users a better experience."  Both Microsoft Windows and Apple's Mac OS are closed systems.  Neither is freely available from the Open Software Foundation, and neither can be modified freely in accordance with their use licenses.  You might learn a little more about the divergent paths of Microsoft and Apple by doing a little research on their histories.  

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  My response to your last paragraph: Huh??  :smileytongue:

                                                                                                                                                                  • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                                                                                                                    nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                    deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    We won't get into a contest (I hope) about who makes the most reliable computers. All of the testing labs, reports and surveys show Apple number one in reliability. If your computer works while running Windows - good for you but you are in the minority and lucky. If it's easy to install new add-on hardware and software and the computer doesn't crash and need to be re-booted a lot - great!

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    My premise is based on firm ground. You are right, people hope they are not buying a boat anchor but studies show Apple number owner in customer satisfaction - and that's a fact. I've been forced to run Windows machines at work for years and it's a constant hassle. Everyone knows it, even if they are afraid to admit it. Apple wouldn't be as big as it is if the stuff didn't work - unless you think they've fooled a whole bunch of people including the experts. A UNIX based OS simply is more reliable. Steve and Bill had the open vs.closed argument for years and the end result was that by controlling everything from end-to-end Apple gave its users a better experience. They actually got to use the stuff instead of baby sitting it.

                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                    Do I like ALL of Apple's policies - no. But I live with them. Usually, when a better way really works, Apple changes to it. In the mean time, since I'm not concerned about giving people copies of my stuff, I'll live with the policies that prevail.


                                                                                                                                                                    Is this based on a J.D. Power report?

                                                                                                                                                                      • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                        keriflur

                                                                                                                                                                        Fred011 wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        Is this based on a J.D. Power report?

                                                                                                                                                                        LOL. :smileyvery-happy:

                                                                                                                                                                        • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                          nlstein
                                                                                                                                                                          Just for the record, I quit. I can no longer stand the bickering, name calling and innuendo. The customer satisfaction surveys I mentioned, and others, tell the story. A company doesn't become the largest without producing great product. Customers will stop buying the products at any price if they aren't good. There are many computer companies that no longer exist which proves the point IMO. Notice that Apple changed its name from Apple Computer to Apple, Inc. some time ago because they are focusing on many thing that don't fit into the narrow "computer" field. With over $90 Billion dollars in cash they must be doing something right. If there are other companies anyone here can name that are more successful please name them. For me, I equate quality with success. Bye.
                                                                                                                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                              deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                              nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              Just for the record, I quit. I can no longer stand the bickering, name calling and innuendo. The customer satisfaction surveys I mentioned, and others, tell the story. A company doesn't become the largest without producing great product. Customers will stop buying the products at any price if they aren't good. There are many computer companies that no longer exist which proves the point IMO. Notice that Apple changed its name from Apple Computer to Apple, Inc. some time ago because they are focusing on many thing that don't fit into the narrow "computer" field. With over $90 Billion dollars in cash they must be doing something right. If there are other companies anyone here can name that are more successful please name them. For me, I equate quality with success. Bye.

                                                                                                                                                                              So then, continuing your train of logic, Exxon-Mobil became the largest because they produce a great product?  We would stop buying their product at any price if it wasn't good?  We enjoy paying almost $4 per gallon for the company's gasoline because it is so good?  Name changes should be significant to consumers because they, somehow, relate to the overall quality of a company's products and services?  It would be really unusual to find a monopoly with more cash available than it can use? 

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              The question arises: What planet are you from?

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                                  nlstein

                                                                                                                                                                                  The real question is... when are people here going to become civil? If you don't agree that's fine, but insinuating that I'm from some other planet because I see things differently than you is just rude.

                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                  Exxon makes a good gas just like most others but we, by the definitions written here shouldn't buy anything from them because they are the bad guy (I'm still not sure which gas is okay to buy). If it were better maybe we would buy it over other brands - maybe not.

                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                  Apple is not a monopoly so I don't understand your reasoning there.

                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't recall saying that the Apple name change meant anything other than they changed their name - not because their products were better. Maybe you can point that part of my sentence out - maybe not.

                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                  There, I said what I wanted to and I don't think I insulted anyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                    • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                                      deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                                      nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                      The real question is... when are people here going to become civil? If you don't agree that's fine, but insinuating that I'm from some other planet because I see things differently than you is just rude.

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      Exxon makes a good gas just like most others but we, by the definitions written here shouldn't buy anything from them because they are the bad guy (I'm still not sure which gas is okay to buy). If it were better maybe we would buy it over other brands - maybe not.

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      Apple is not a monopoly so I don't understand your reasoning there.

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't recall saying that the Apple name change meant anything other than they changed their name - not because their products were better. Maybe you can point that part of my sentence out - maybe not.

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      There, I said what I wanted to and I don't think I insulted anyone.


                                                                                                                                                                                      Let's see now.  If most of the gasoline flows through the same pipelines, how might it be possible for any brand to be "better" than any other brand?  Gasoline is "fungible," is it not?

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      Do your homework.  Apple is, indeed, a monopoly.  We cannot, legally, purchase an apple computer, then run the Windows or Linux operating systems on it.  We cannot, legally, obtain a copy of Max OS X and run it on an IBM PC-compatible (x86) that we purchase from a source other than one authorized by Apple.  Even though such hacked machines (aptly named "Hackintosh" computers) are available to those willing to break the law, Apple has been successful in prosecuting the producers of Hackintosh machines.  Finally, we cannot, legally, purchase Apple-compatible computers from any source other than Apple and its established channels of distribution. 

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      Well, when you pointed out that Apple had changed its name, you obviously did so for a reason.  If that factoid was totally irrelevant to the discussion, why did you introduce it? 

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      Good for you for not insulting anyone!  :smileyhappy:

                                                                                                                                                                                  • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                                    bobstro

                                                                                                                                                                                    nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                    [...] A company doesn't become the largest without producing great product. Customers will stop buying the products at any price if they aren't good. [...] With over $90 Billion dollars in cash they must be doing something right. If there are other companies anyone here can name that are more successful please name them. For me, I equate quality with success. Bye.

                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't disagree with everything you're saying, but the size of a company has nothing to do with the quality of what it sells. If you want to use that metric, you're making the case that Samsung, Panasonic and IBM produce better products than Apple.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    I feel the same way about Apple that I do about B&N: Great hardware. Dopey software.

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                    Doesn't quitting mean not coming back?

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                              • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!

                                                                                                                                                                                deesy58 wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                nlstein wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                So let me get this straight. I should buy computers that don't work because I don't agree with everything Apple does. Makes sense to me. BTW, I have written Apple on several occasions about some of their policies i do't like and prised them about their products that I do like. I even get email back from them. Have you evr written to Microsoft, HP or any other PC company? The idea of cutting my nose off to spite my face seems wrong to me. But hay, I've been told I am wrong by lots of people here. Just out of curiosity what brand of computer "should" I be using to be PC (excuse the pun)?

                                                                                                                                                                                Your entire argument rests on a false premise: that Apple computers "work," and that some others do not "work."  The truth is, nobody would purchase and pay for a computer that did not work unless they needed a boat anchor.  :smileyhappy:


                                                                                                                                                                                A very small boat! :smileywink:

                                                                                                                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                              deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                              Ya_Ya wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Don't get the two confused. I know it's easy when you're trying to embarrass someone.


                                                                                                                                                                              I wasn't trying to embarrass anyone; I was pointing out that as long as people who strongly dislike a company's policies continue to give said company money, the company has little to no incentive to change a policy.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              By buying their computers "that just work" you tell Apple that you agree with them.  Even if you don't.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              If I buy from Amazon, then I tell them I agree with their business practices, even if I don't.  If I buy from Walmart, then I tell them I agree with their anticompetitive, anti-EPA, anti-employee business practices, even if I don't...


                                                                                                                                                                              Hmm.  That made me think.  If I buy gasoline for my car (at the current ridiculously high prices), do I agree with the business practices of Big Oil? 

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Just wondered.  :smileytongue:

                                                                                                                                                                            • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                                              deesy58

                                                                                                                                                                              nlstein wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              Ya, Ya:

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Just because I'm "macboy" does not have to mean that I agree with EVERYTHING that Apple does. I like their products because "they just work: but I don't always agree with their policies and tactics. Don't get the two confused. I know it's easy when you're trying to embarrass someone.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              At least my computers all work all the time. If my refrigerator worked like a Windows PC I'd starve.


                                                                                                                                                                              I know you're trying to remain engaged in a flame war, but when was the last time you learned anything new about Windows PCs?

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Both Apple and PC manufacturers use Intel processor chips for the heart of their machines.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Windows has become very stable, beginning with Windows XP in 2001.  I used to let my computer run 24/7, and the only time it ever stopped was when Microsoft completed an unannounced update that required a re-start.

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Apple is a smaller target than Windows because Windows still enjoys a 90+% market share on the computer desktop.  If Apple's market share ever increases dramatically, you can expect to see as many hacking attempts, Trojans, worms, viruses, etc. as Windows currently must try to resist and prevent. 

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              Like Microsoft, Apple has a monopoly.  In fact, Apple's monopoly is, in some ways, more egregious than Microsoft's because Apple controls both the software and the hardware of their computers, while Microsoft controls only the software. 

                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              I'm certainly not a Microsoftie, but I'm not about to pay the outrageously high prices charged by Apple so that they can enjoy more obscene profits.  Linux is looking more and more attractive every day ...

                                                                                                                                                          • Re: BEWARE NOOK BUYERS!!
                                                                                                                                                            djbchoctaw

                                                                                                                                                            Now on my 3rd Nook Original/Color/Tablet and have never had a problem with any of them. I has questions a couple of times, and could visit my nearest B&N for advice. Try that with a Kindle! BTW, I also have a Kindle that I don't prefer