34 Replies Latest reply on Oct 9, 2012 11:32 AM by BearLion

    Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?

    Doug_Pardee

      Publishers Weekly notes that although prices on HarperCollins e-books went back to being set by the retailers this week and some titles got significant price drops, none of HC's e-books broke into Amazon's top 10. I took a look here at B&N's "Top 100".

       

      • #6: The Happiness Project, reduced from $10.99 to $7.69
      • #33: The Ugly Duchess, reduced from $6.99 to $5.99
      • #68: Family Affair + The Bet, reduced from $3.99 to $3.49
      • #82: The Rise of Nine, reduced from $11.99 to $7.99
      • #83: Telegraph Avenue, reduced from $17.99 to $9.99
      • #88: Divergent, reduced from $9.99 to $7.29
      • #99: Insurgent, reduced from $11.99 to $7.99

      The only e-book to take a big drop that's in the top 100 is Telegraph Avenue.

       

      Some other HarperCollins e-books that took big price drops, along with sales rank (which isn't quite the same as the positions in the Top 100):

       

      • #166: American Sniper, from $14.99 to $9.99
      • #204: The Fallen Angel, from $17.99 to $9.99
      • #334: Bloodline, from $14.99 to $9.99
      • #386: Judgment Call, from $14.99 to $9.99
      • #509: The Orchardist, from $13.99 to $9.99
      • #580: Tiger's Claw, from $15.99 to $9.99
      • #752: Beautiful Ruins, from $14.99 to $9.99
      • #1370: Porch Lights, from $12.99 to $9.99
      • #1441: Delirium: the Special Edition, from $12.99 to $7.99
      • #1473: And When She Was Good, from $14.99 to $9.99
        • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
          Irishelf

          I don't call these major price drops.  A major price drop would be like what happened to the book "Partials"- it went from $9.99 to $2.99 (I would have been happy if it had gone down to $5, but $3 is even better).  I don't think price really had anything to do with the sales numbers-I was only interested in 2 of the titles mentioned, one of which I already had.  I am disabled and on a fixed income.  I cannot afford to spend $10 for an ebook  and rarely do.  I almost always wait until a special is offered and then buy it (one of the reasons B&N's decision to stop the family daily deal in order to have an election daily deal upsets me-most of my daily deal purchases have been YA  dystopian books that were under the family category).  I have only bought 4 ebooks in the past year that cost $9.99 and NONE that cost more than that!

            • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
              keriflur

              I don't know all these titles, but for the ones I know, they're all in books that have been out for months or years. For the newer books the prices barely changed at all. 

               

              I expect the impact we'll see from this is that over time more people will wait to buy books until the prices drop. Under the agency model prices changes were infrequent at best. I expect we'll see them more often now, the way we used to before the agency model came into play. 

                • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                  MacMcK1957

                  keriflur wrote:

                  I don't know all these titles, but for the ones I know, they're all in books that have been out for months or years. For the newer books the prices barely changed at all. 

                   

                  I expect the impact we'll see from this is that over time more people will wait to buy books until the prices drop. Under the agency model prices changes were infrequent at best. I expect we'll see them more often now, the way we used to before the agency model came into play. 


                  I don't really have a problem with this.  There are some people who always want the latest.  They'll rent a movie rather than waiting for it to hit HBO.  They want the newest books when they come out, and pay a premium to buy them when they only exist in hardcover.  These people are willing to pay more for the new releases, and the same marketing and pricing logic would exist on the e-book side.  Seems reasonable to me that the e-book price should drop when the mass-market paperback is released.

                  • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                    Doug_Pardee

                    keriflur wrote:

                     

                    I don't know all these titles, but for the ones I know, they're all in books that have been out for months or years.


                     I've added the month and year of release to each of those listings:

                     

                    • #6: 12/09 The Happiness Project, reduced from $10.99 to $7.69
                    • #33: 08/12 The Ugly Duchess, reduced from $6.99 to $5.99
                    • #68: 06/12 Family Affair + The Bet, reduced from $3.99 to $3.49
                    • #82: 08/12 The Rise of Nine, reduced from $11.99 to $7.99
                    • #83: 09/12 Telegraph Avenue, reduced from $17.99 to $9.99
                    • #88: 05/11 Divergent, reduced from $9.99 to $7.29
                    • #99: 05/12 Insurgent, reduced from $11.99 to $7.99

                     

                    • #166: 01/12 American Sniper, from $14.99 to $9.99
                    • #204: 07/12 The Fallen Angel, from $17.99 to $9.99
                    • #334: 06/12 Bloodline, from $14.99 to $9.99
                    • #386: 07/12 Judgment Call, from $14.99 to $9.99
                    • #509: 08/12 The Orchardist, from $13.99 to $9.99
                    • #580: 09/12 Tiger's Claw, from $15.99 to $9.99
                    • #752: 06/12 Beautiful Ruins, from $14.99 to $9.99
                    • #1370: 06/12 Porch Lights, from $12.99 to $9.99
                    • #1441: 08/11 Delirium: the Special Edition, from $12.99 to $7.99
                    • #1473: 08/12 And When She Was Good, from $14.99 to $9.99

                    All but three are "frontlist", having been released in the past 12 months. Twelve of the seventeen — I bolded the dates on these — have been released in the past three months (well, stretching the definition of "three months" by a couple of days to include June 12th).

                     

                • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                  patgolfneb
                  Deesy58, I feel you are employing broad economic principles in a situation where other market principles are factors. I was only predicting where I believe prices will head in the near term, not advancing any support or negation of broad economic principles. Certainly Amazon has served as a market price setter to some degree, but I believe they will be more reluctant to do so in the near term. They are soon begin collecting sales tax on many more sales, eeroding some of their price advantage. They are making large investments in tablets etc. The effects of supply and demand often take years to manifest. In the short term these kind of localized factors are often more important. Until e books are the primary way to buy books and barriers to competition placed by various countries are removed macro economic factors are less important than customers comparison of e book prices with traditional paper and hardcover books.
                    • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                      deesy58

                      patgolfneb wrote:
                      Deesy58, I feel you are employing broad economic principles in a situation where other market principles are factors. I was only predicting where I believe prices will head in the near term, not advancing any support or negation of broad economic principles. Certainly Amazon has served as a market price setter to some degree, but I believe they will be more reluctant to do so in the near term. They are soon begin collecting sales tax on many more sales, eeroding some of their price advantage. They are making large investments in tablets etc. The effects of supply and demand often take years to manifest. In the short term these kind of localized factors are often more important. Until e books are the primary way to buy books and barriers to competition placed by various countries are removed macro economic factors are less important than customers comparison of e book prices with traditional paper and hardcover books.

                      I appreciate your clarification and explanation, Pat.  Thank you for that.

                       

                      The way I see this entire issue is that there are two marketplaces, and two transactions taking place.  The first is the publishers selling to the retailers.  In this market, the publishers have every right to sell their products for whatever price the market will allow, and they do.  This is the so-called "wholesale model."

                       

                      The second market is the retailers selling to consumers.  Again, the retailers have every right to charge whatever price the market will bear, and they do.  We see this every day when we compare prices between B&N, Amazon, Kobo, etc.  This is just plain retailing, and it has been conducted by humans for thousands of years.

                       

                      There should be no interrelationship between the two markets.  They should operate freely and independently.  Apple and five publishers colluded to establish an artificial interrelationship that amounted to illegal price fixing.  The DOJ filed suit, and three of the publishers have agreed to withdraw from their illegal contract and stop controlling retail prices. 

                       

                      Obviously, no business can perpetually sell products for less than they purchase them -- not even Amazon.  If, as some have asserted on these fora, it costs much less to produce an e-book than it does to produce a paper and ink book (and I am making no claim one way or the other on this aspect of the discussion), then it stands to reason that e-book prices must eventually fall to a level lower than that of paperback books.  Publishers and retailers are entitled to fair profits, but not to obscene profits.  Why, for example, shouldn't consumers expect e-book prices to stabilize at a point closer to $5 than to $10? 

                       

                      Your statement that "macro economic factors are less important than customers comparison of e book prices with traditional paper and hardcover books" is exactly my point.  Why should anybody pay as much or more for an e-book (that they cannot resell or lend indiscriminately) as they would for a paper and ink book that they can resell, share or just look at on a bookshelf?  This is precisely an economic principle - the principle of perceived value. 

                      http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/perceived-value.asp#axzz26bITM49D

                       

                      I love my favorite authors.  I am, however, sufficiently patient that I am not willing to spend $14.99, $12.99 or even (sometimes) $9.99 for an e-book that is an intangible that cannot be resold, or easily shared.  Some people are willing to spend those amounts, but I would venture that the majority of current and prospective readers of e-books are not -- especially young people and the elderly with limited funds. 

                       

                    • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                      Irishelf

                      When I complained about the high cost of large print books, I was told they cost more because of the printing and paper costs.  Now the same people are saying printing and paper costs are negligible.  They can't have it both ways!  And since we don't really own the book, why are we charged the same amount as a book we actually own- one that we can resell, loan or give away.  My mother bought the V.C. Andrews "Flowers in the Attic" series and so far at least 8 different people have borrowed them from her.  So eight people didn't buy the series.  The same can not be done with an ebook.  And while many people own ereaders because of the convenience, there are just as many that own them because of a visual or reading disability (which usually means a person with a low and/or fixed income.  I am visually impaired and almost all of the equipment necessary for independent living are expensive and not covered by insurance (magnifiers, white canes, etc.)

                      • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                        patgolfneb
                        I know nothing about best seller list creation. Back when records, not CDs or Blue Ray, records it was widely reported that sales reports were manipulated by sellers. When computerized inventory arrived everyone was shocked to discover country was the largest selling category by a significant anmount. My point is these lists are basically a form of advertising, if no standardized transparent method is used I would not be suprised. I bet most of us know this intuitively and the lists have close to 0 impact on our purchase decisions. A year from now there may be some relevent data. I say may because it depends how detailed the data released by sellers is.
                        • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?

                          I think there are a few things to consider here

                           

                          1) Would Amazon and B&N really be interested in losing profits from ebook sales?

                           

                          2) Would Publishers? Obviously, we know they won't because they went with the Agency Model and they try everything to prop up physical book sales.

                           

                          So the only parties interested in lower prices are readers and -

                           

                          a) upcoming authors

                           

                          b) upcoming retailers.

                           

                          c) Existing authors who think they can make more money at lower prices if they sell themselves.

                           

                          So the real price drops etc. we'll see will be when the restrictions on those are removed.

                           

                          Upcoming Authors - still hand-cuffed by things like Amazon's 'You only get 70% if you price books over $2.99' policy.

                           

                          Existing Authors - Most are locked into contracts.

                           

                          Upcoming Retailers - I don't know of any that are capable of taking losses. Kobo is a candidate.

                           

                          *****

                          Basically, we're in a Razors and Blades model and neither the Blade manufacturer (Publishers) nor the distribution pipelines for Blades (B&N, Kobo, Amazon, Apple) have any interest in killing their profits.

                           

                          If at some point Amazon thinks the value for adding more users via cheap books is worth it, then Amazon will do big price cuts. However, perhaps Amazon is realizing that it might be better to make money from BOTH book purchases and other purchases than just from other purchases.

                            • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                              patgolfneb
                              I would not be surprised at some point, depending on how big a share of the market e books attain, that publishers redefine the sales process. They could decide the investment in IT and processing power is worth making to increase their control. This would turn websites like BN and Amazon into advertising sites. All fulfillment would be through the publishers. BN and Amazon would likely offer cloud storage as an incentive to use their sites. Harry Potter sales demonstrate this possibility. Baen books sells significant numbers directly. This process avoids the formal agency process, but functions similarly. I have no idea if BN can make enough money this way and it clearly won't work without Nooks and a strong reader app. I do think if Amazon returns to heavy discounting and agency pricing is restricted long term it is a possibility.
                                • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?

                                  patgolfneb wrote:
                                  I would not be surprised at some point, depending on how big a share of the market e books attain, that publishers redefine the sales process. They could decide the investment in IT and processing power is worth making to increase their control. This would turn websites like BN and Amazon into advertising sites. All fulfillment would be through the publishers. BN and Amazon would likely offer cloud storage as an incentive to use their sites. Harry Potter sales demonstrate this possibility. Baen books sells significant numbers directly. This process avoids the formal agency process, but functions similarly. I have no idea if BN can make enough money this way and it clearly won't work without Nooks and a strong reader app. I do think if Amazon returns to heavy discounting and agency pricing is restricted long term it is a possibility.

                                  Agency pricing is only restricted for 2 years for the settling publishers.

                                   

                                    • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                      bklvr896

                                      BearLion wrote:

                                      patgolfneb wrote:
                                      I would not be surprised at some point, depending on how big a share of the market e books attain, that publishers redefine the sales process. They could decide the investment in IT and processing power is worth making to increase their control. This would turn websites like BN and Amazon into advertising sites. All fulfillment would be through the publishers. BN and Amazon would likely offer cloud storage as an incentive to use their sites. Harry Potter sales demonstrate this possibility. Baen books sells significant numbers directly. This process avoids the formal agency process, but functions similarly. I have no idea if BN can make enough money this way and it clearly won't work without Nooks and a strong reader app. I do think if Amazon returns to heavy discounting and agency pricing is restricted long term it is a possibility.

                                      Agency pricing is only restricted for 2 years for the settling publishers.

                                       


                                      And right now it's only restricted to the publishers who settled.  And Random House who isn't named in the suits at all has no restrictions.

                                  • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                    BooksOnTheKnob

                                    Don't confuse lower prices with lower profits.

                                     

                                    Everyone in the chain is interested in that (even upcoming authors, for the long haul, usually).

                                     

                                    Many have found that lower profit per item with vastly increased sales quantities is more profitable.  Of course, most of those aren't trying to pay for offices in Manhattan (and salaries for people to live in the city nearby).

                                  • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                    patgolfneb
                                    OUCH, although I rarely use the in store reading feature, I don't believe in store readers are the only cloggers, at least at night and on weekends. Students, people working on their laptops, while their children roam unsupervised, and others using the Wi Fi often crowd the stores also. My first response would beto have a time limit for Wi Fi use just like the in store readers have.
                                    • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                      JenScheil

                                      I can read anywhere, and since my Nook is normally in my purse, I end up doing it alot. I love chilling in SB or B & N cafe where I have a steady supply of coffee and company to read my book. At our B & N back home they have a book club that meets at their cafe once a week! Sponsored by B & N AND normally all members use the RIS function. I miss the old cafe's with the comfy couches and chairs strictly meant for poetry and reading sessions, but since those are few and far between SB and B & N cafe will have to do. I have never personnally used the RIS option, but that is only bc I am always in the middle of a book while I am there. I do not have an issue with it at all, since it is advertised benefit of owning a Nook. I am sure I will use it one of these days, and am glad the benefit is there.

                                        • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                          deesy58

                                          JenScheil wrote:

                                          I can read anywhere, and since my Nook is normally in my purse, I end up doing it alot. I love chilling in SB or B & N cafe where I have a steady supply of coffee and company to read my book. At our B & N back home they have a book club that meets at their cafe once a week! Sponsored by B & N AND normally all members use the RIS function. I miss the old cafe's with the comfy couches and chairs strictly meant for poetry and reading sessions, but since those are few and far between SB and B & N cafe will have to do. I have never personnally used the RIS option, but that is only bc I am always in the middle of a book while I am there. I do not have an issue with it at all, since it is advertised benefit of owning a Nook. I am sure I will use it one of these days, and am glad the benefit is there.


                                          There are always those who abuse a privilege.  I recall a restaurant chain in the Midwest called "Ponderosa."  They established a breakfast buffet.  Most patrons used it for a good breakfast at a fair price.  Some, however, would literally stuff themselves with food, coming back day after day.  They would bring lunch containers and stuff them with bacon or sausage to take home with them.  Their gluttony led, first to the use of smaller plates, then to the abandonment of the buffets altogether.  All of the Ponderosa Steak Houses in that part of the country closed down.  I'm not sure if they are still in business anywhere else.

                                           

                                          Some people sit in their B&N book store all day long, reading books that they have not purchased.  If you or I wish to take advantage of the RIS privilege in order to determine whether we want to purchase a book or magazine, we had better be able to read standing up.  Too bad if we have arthritis or any other disability.  These people simply do not care.  They believe that they are "entitled" to stay in the store as long as they wish, and to read books (both kinds) as long as they wish without paying for anything. 

                                           

                                          I'll say it again: This practice is akin to stealing. 

                                           

                                            • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                              BooksOnTheKnob

                                              deesy58 wrote:



                                              There are always those who abuse a privilege.  I recall a restaurant chain in the Midwest called "Ponderosa."  They established a breakfast buffet.  Most patrons used it for a good breakfast at a fair price.  Some, however, would literally stuff themselves with food, coming back day after day.  They would bring lunch containers and stuff them with bacon or sausage to take home with them.  Their gluttony led, first to the use of smaller plates, then to the abandonment of the buffets altogether.  All of the Ponderosa Steak Houses in that part of the country closed down.  I'm not sure if they are still in business anywhere else.

                                               

                                              Some people sit in their B&N book store all day long, reading books that they have not purchased.  If you or I wish to take advantage of the RIS privilege in order to determine whether we want to purchase a book or magazine, we had better be able to read standing up.  Too bad if we have arthritis or any other disability.  These people simply do not care.  They believe that they are "entitled" to stay in the store as long as they wish, and to read books (both kinds) as long as they wish without paying for anything. 

                                               

                                              I'll say it again: This practice is akin to stealing. 

                                               


                                               

                                              Yet, every other commenter has said there are always chairs available at B&N (ours is a bit busier than when Borders was around, but still I've never seen every chair in use).  You must have the only 100% occupied B&N in the country near you.

                                               

                                              I don't know how  you think that using a feature (which B&N pays the publisher for, just as Amazon does for their Kindle Lending Library) promoted by B&N and under the terms that B&N has said it is to be used would be stealing (unlike taking food home from a buffet, which has always been posted as forbidden -- and shoveling up massive quantities to the gluttons to eat in store has always been a hazard of that business model, yet the buffets persist and are always popular).

                                               

                                              B&N originally promoted one hour per book per day. They changed that a few months later to one hour per day per account, regardless of the books looked at (and if you share two tablets on an account, their time adds together towards that 1 hr limit). It's a fair limit, if it actually works correctly --- I only visit once a week or so and have often had three visits in a row where the feature can't be used at all. Even at an hour a day, with weekly visits I would not finish a novel in month (not the ones I read, anyway), if I were even reading the same one each time. I suspect I'm about average in how I use the feature (much less than actual employees do, for example), so it compares very much to Amazon's Lending Library (except that B&N makes the value of the book in profit from the cafe, if I were to actually be able to read the entire thing there).

                                               

                                              Of course, the original post I made was on the abysmal quality of the technical support at B&N. I've been charged for free books dozens of times (which they finally seem to have fixed by their confirmation page, which is possibly the most onerous of fixes available to them, but does work) -- B&N's solution to those overcharges was several days of dithering, then returning the books (and removing them from my library) in order to get a refund to process (which meant, if they were no longer free at that point, I could not add them back to my library) and this happened to hundreds of people (search the old posts just in this forum). Their support often just makes up an answer that tells the caller that it is their fault something doesn't work or blames some invisible setting that is causing a problem (well, technically, it appears to be a massive fault in their RIS programming, just as with their ordering system before, that is causing this particular issue and no support person can fix it - but they apparently never tell anyone at B&N that can fix the issue, assuming they even have the ability to do so).

                                               

                                                • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                  deesy58

                                                  BooksOnTheKnob wrote:

                                                  deesy58 wrote:



                                                  There are always those who abuse a privilege.  I recall a restaurant chain in the Midwest called "Ponderosa."  They established a breakfast buffet.  Most patrons used it for a good breakfast at a fair price.  Some, however, would literally stuff themselves with food, coming back day after day.  They would bring lunch containers and stuff them with bacon or sausage to take home with them.  Their gluttony led, first to the use of smaller plates, then to the abandonment of the buffets altogether.  All of the Ponderosa Steak Houses in that part of the country closed down.  I'm not sure if they are still in business anywhere else.

                                                   

                                                  Some people sit in their B&N book store all day long, reading books that they have not purchased.  If you or I wish to take advantage of the RIS privilege in order to determine whether we want to purchase a book or magazine, we had better be able to read standing up.  Too bad if we have arthritis or any other disability.  These people simply do not care.  They believe that they are "entitled" to stay in the store as long as they wish, and to read books (both kinds) as long as they wish without paying for anything. 

                                                   

                                                  I'll say it again: This practice is akin to stealing. 

                                                   


                                                   

                                                  Yet, every other commenter has said there are always chairs available at B&N (ours is a bit busier than when Borders was around, but still I've never seen every chair in use).  You must have the only 100% occupied B&N in the country near you.

                                                   

                                                  I don't know how  you think that using a feature (which B&N pays the publisher for, just as Amazon does for their Kindle Lending Library) promoted by B&N and under the terms that B&N has said it is to be used would be stealing (unlike taking food home from a buffet, which has always been posted as forbidden -- and shoveling up massive quantities to the gluttons to eat in store has always been a hazard of that business model, yet the buffets persist and are always popular).

                                                   

                                                  B&N originally promoted one hour per book per day. They changed that a few months later to one hour per day per account, regardless of the books looked at (and if you share two tablets on an account, their time adds together towards that 1 hr limit). It's a fair limit, if it actually works correctly --- I only visit once a week or so and have often had three visits in a row where the feature can't be used at all. Even at an hour a day, with weekly visits I would not finish a novel in month (not the ones I read, anyway), if I were even reading the same one each time. I suspect I'm about average in how I use the feature (much less than actual employees do, for example), so it compares very much to Amazon's Lending Library (except that B&N makes the value of the book in profit from the cafe, if I were to actually be able to read the entire thing there).

                                                   

                                                  Of course, the original post I made was on the abysmal quality of the technical support at B&N. I've been charged for free books dozens of times (which they finally seem to have fixed by their confirmation page, which is possibly the most onerous of fixes available to them, but does work) -- B&N's solution to those overcharges was several days of dithering, then returning the books (and removing them from my library) in order to get a refund to process (which meant, if they were no longer free at that point, I could not add them back to my library) and this happened to hundreds of people (search the old posts just in this forum). Their support often just makes up an answer that tells the caller that it is their fault something doesn't work or blames some invisible setting that is causing a problem (well, technically, it appears to be a massive fault in their RIS programming, just as with their ordering system before, that is causing this particular issue and no support person can fix it - but they apparently never tell anyone at B&N that can fix the issue, assuming they even have the ability to do so).

                                                   


                                                  "B&N originally promoted one hour per book per day. They changed that a few months later to one hour per day per account, regardless of the books looked at (and if you share two tablets on an account, their time adds together towards that 1 hr limit). It's a fair limit, if it actually works correctly --- I only visit once a week or so and have often had three visits in a row where the feature can't be used at all."

                                                   

                                                  Questions:  Is this policy of reading e-books within a B&N book store universal at all B&N book stores?  If it wasn't, how would we know?

                                                   

                                                  Because the stores where you live have empty chairs, therefore all B&N stores must have empty chairs, and anybody who says otherwise must not be telling the truth is not a logically sound assertion. 

                                                   

                                                  You are assuming that my posts are limited to the reading of e-books.  They are not.  It makes no difference what kind of book is being read if the same butt occupies the same chair for hours on end. 

                                                   

                                                  Anybody who uses the Read-in-Store (RIS) feature the way B&N intended, to determine whether to purchase a book or magazine, should not assume that I am attacking their integrity.  I am not!  I like to use the furniture in my B&N book store for that very purpose.

                                                   

                                                  Anybody who travels to their local B&N book store on a regular basis for the purpose of reading books (regardless of media type) to completion without having to pay for them, and believes that I am criticizing them for mooching, freeloading, or stealing is dead on.  I am.

                                                   

                                                  I hope I have helped to clarify my position.  :smileyhappy:

                                                   

                                                   

                                            • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                              patgolfneb
                                              The impact of in store reading on deconrolled e book prices is just staggering / not.
                                              • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                patgolfneb
                                                Deesy58, If we concede a few of these people exist, the BN equivalent of extreme couponers can this end? We are all basing our responses on observations at various times. No surveys, PI's, no way to prove anything either way. BN knows how many people use RIS, how much many of them buy, especially if they have a BN. Membership, after all nooks have registered accounts. If they agree it is non productive they can always modify the terms.
                                                  • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                    deesy58

                                                    patgolfneb wrote:
                                                    Deesy58, If we concede a few of these people exist, the BN equivalent of extreme couponers can this end? We are all basing our responses on observations at various times. No surveys, PI's, no way to prove anything either way. BN knows how many people use RIS, how much many of them buy, especially if they have a BN. Membership, after all nooks have registered accounts. If they agree it is non productive they can always modify the terms.

                                                    No need to concede anything, Pat.  This thread could have ended several days ago but for the few who like to lurk on a thread until they see what they perceive is an opening.  Then they jump in with a non-constructive insult or sarcasm that contributes nothing meaningful to the discourse, but which is intended to cut off the speech of those with whom they disagree. 

                                                     

                                                    Unless they have some sort of OCD, why is it that some people feel that they simply MUST jump into an active discussion and hurl an insult at somebody they don't like.  To me, that seems a bit juvenile, but perhaps it it because the posters really are juveniles.  I don't know. 

                                                     

                                                    I thought the thread had pretty much wound down ... until keriflur made the less than meaningful post of ** YAWN ** in response to a different post on a different thread -- a practice that appears to have been started by keriflur's friend Nallia and continued by me.  Sauce for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.  

                                                     

                                                    Then, of course, Ya_Ya, who has been known to lob a grenade or two, jumps in with a thinly disguised accusation that I am a liar.  On top of that, she makes a nonsensical argument that because nothing tangible left the store, nothing was stolen.  Does she also support the pirating of software and music?  Is that not stealing?  Is it okay to sneak into a theater and watch a movie without buying a ticket?  Or a concert?  Or a sporting event? 

                                                     

                                                    Anybody who agrees or disagrees with the opinions being presented on these threads is free to post their positions in a meaningful, well-reasoned manner without resorting to name calling or stifling the opinions of others.  If they don't like the opinions being expressed, they are under no obligation to respond to them,  Silence can be golden.  Unlike some others on the B&N Book Clubs fora, I find I have no compulsion to post an opinion on every single thread on every single forum on the Web site. 

                                                     

                                                    What I see occurring here is projection.  Some of us are projecting our personal experiences onto the entire world.  I told everybody what I see here, where I live.  It has inconvenienced me and my family, certainly to the detriment of B&N.  Just because somebody doesn't see the same issues at their local two-story Barnes and Noble Book Stores in whatever part of the country they happen to live does not mean that it doesn't happen in the all-single-story B&N book stores where I happen to live.  How does that justify anybody calling me a liar.  That kind of logic would lead one to assert that it couldn't possibly be raining at your house because the sun is shining at mine. 

                                                     

                                                    If everybody wants this thread to end, there is an easy way to do it: Stop posting to it!  :smileytongue:

                                                  • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                    Irishelf

                                                    Could you please get back on topic?  This thread is supposed to be about decontrolled book pricing, not about the read in store feature of the Nook!

                                                      • The thread has unraveled.
                                                        keriflur

                                                        Irishelf wrote:

                                                        Could you please get back on topic?  This thread is supposed to be about decontrolled book pricing, not about the read in store feature of the Nook!


                                                        Or wedding dresses, theft, or the difference between ethics and morals.

                                                         

                                                        Sorry, Irishelf, but I don't think this one's going to be recoverable.

                                                         

                                                        • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                          BooksOnTheKnob

                                                          Irishelf wrote:

                                                          Could you please get back on topic?  This thread is supposed to be about decontrolled book pricing, not about the read in store feature of the Nook!


                                                          I don't know, this looks to pretty much be a good primer on decontrolled posting in discussions.....

                                                           

                                                          I have noticed that a number of backlist titles seem to be lower (Harpercollins) in the romance area, but this may just be a limited time promotion. One author has a large number under $4  (39) and under $5 (I didn't count and I am more used to seeing one book on sale and most of the rest of the backlist at $6-$8, depending on the publisher.  Most have seemed to stick at the same price as paperbacks (in the genres I've been interested in).

                                                           

                                                            • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                              JenScheil

                                                              I was very glad to see some of the Sookie Stackhouses prices have been lowered! Before they were the same price, there is at least a $2 differance now! Hopefully this will continue to trend and be good for the e-book community!

                                                                • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                                  keriflur

                                                                  JenScheil wrote:

                                                                  I was very glad to see some of the Sookie Stackhouses prices have been lowered! Before they were the same price, there is at least a $2 differance now! Hopefully this will continue to trend and be good for the e-book community!


                                                                  That's interesting, as those are published by Penguin, who is notoriously bad at pricing. I wonder if sales were starting to fall off. 

                                                                • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                                  bklvr896

                                                                  BooksOnTheKnob wrote:

                                                                  Irishelf wrote:

                                                                  Could you please get back on topic?  This thread is supposed to be about decontrolled book pricing, not about the read in store feature of the Nook!


                                                                  I don't know, this looks to pretty much be a good primer on decontrolled posting in discussions.....

                                                                   

                                                                  I have noticed that a number of backlist titles seem to be lower (Harpercollins) in the romance area, but this may just be a limited time promotion. One author has a large number under $4  (39) and under $5 (I didn't count and I am more used to seeing one book on sale and most of the rest of the backlist at $6-$8, depending on the publisher.  Most have seemed to stick at the same price as paperbacks (in the genres I've been interested in).

                                                                   


                                                                  So, which authors?

                                                              • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                                patgolfneb
                                                                Yeah, at least the political OT have better insults.
                                                                • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                                  JenScheil

                                                                  Well I am sure the number of people complaining about "moochers & freeloaders" helped your B & N make that decision as well.

                                                                   

                                                                  Since we are security guards now maybe mine needs to get security guard or at least better employees, first time ever I went in to look for a cookbook/book and was told it was in the store....then when the employee couldn't find it he was like oh! it was probably stolen.....wow! Makes me miss my store back home!

                                                                    • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                                      BooksOnTheKnob

                                                                      No guards here (or full stores either), but the are generally only employed in areas where theft of the music and videos is very high (the Borders had a big problem with that, but still never went to hiring guards; then again, they are gone now....). The more "casual" thieves are detered by guards, while the more professional ones just see them as a challenge (such as trying to squeeze a TV thru the bars in the garden center at Walmart).

                                                                       

                                                                      As for the staff - the 'help desk' people seldom even know where the hot, bestseller books have been moved to (they move things at lot at our store); for that matter, they generally don't even know the genre of the book for some of the very hot authors out there. The nook person actually was better informed (apparently she actually read books), but she left for greener pastures (as does the cafe help everytime a starbucks opening appears here).

                                                                       

                                                                      As for chairs - there are benches, comfy chairs everywhere (not just outside the cafe area), the cafe tables and a couple just outside the cafe, so you aren't pressured into buying something just to use the tables. Our Starbucks is seldom completely full (they do a big drive-thru biz), although that isn't true of the ones across town, in trendier locations (farther from interstates, but much closer to traffic, for those sitting outside; these are usually full of people, of various ages, while one I went to often outside Dallas was always full of high schoolers).

                                                                       

                                                                      As for the moochers - that would not include the Read-in-store people, by most definitions, as they are limited to one hour per day (which apparently some people here have trouble remembering), even if it is working at all. I seldom even see anyone else trying to use it at our store (let's see - if I were going there solely for this purpose, it would cost me about $5 in gas, plus two coffee drinks for an hour to read in a $12 book; repeat until I finished the book and I could have purchased a year's worth of overpriced Agency titles to read) and I suspect the store makes more profit on the cafe purchases than they do on the average books they are selling.

                                                                    • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?
                                                                      Irishelf

                                                                      I'd like to know where the author of the article got his/her info.  As far as I know, the agency model still appears to be in effect.  It looks like Harper Collins dropped the price on a few books, but most of the books I'm interested in actually went up $1-2 in price!  I swear, if I wasn't visually impaired, I'd go back to reading DTB!  Hopefully I'll qualify for a Habitat for Humanity house, so I can actually afford to read!

                                                                        • Re: Decontrolled e-book prices not bringing high sales?

                                                                          Irishelf wrote:

                                                                          I'd like to know where the author of the article got his/her info.  As far as I know, the agency model still appears to be in effect.  It looks like Harper Collins dropped the price on a few books, but most of the books I'm interested in actually went up $1-2 in price!  I swear, if I wasn't visually impaired, I'd go back to reading DTB!  Hopefully I'll qualify for a Habitat for Humanity house, so I can actually afford to read!


                                                                          Harper Collins  reached a new agreement with retailers, so the retailers (amazon, BN, etc) are now setting the prices.

                                                                           

                                                                          Hachette and Simon & Schuster settled but haven't brokered new contracts with retailers yet, thus those two publishers continue to set their prices.

                                                                           

                                                                          Penguin and Macmillan want their day in court and did not settle.

                                                                           

                                                                          Random House is not a party to any lawsuits bc they joined the agency model a year after its implementation, and thus are not seen to have colluded.