15 Replies Latest reply on Jan 17, 2012 7:47 PM by bobstro

    Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

    DeanGibson

      Notice that the XDA-devs thread about unlocking the NT bootloader, has been locked by the moderators over there (due in part to requests from members), due to off-topic bickering about the GPL.  Too bad, because that thread has been a good source of information about bootloader technical issues for two months.  Sigh.  Never fear, the protagonists will find another thread to attach themselves to.

       

      Too bad the moderators here don't do the same regarding similar off-topic bickering that goes on here for far longer (and in much greater volume) than over on the XDA-devs forums.  If the moderators here don't start intervening more aggressively, these forums will become virtually useless for B&N's own purposes (eg, Nook support and the useful exchange of related ideas).

       

      Too bad many members here won't stop it as well.  The same "cause and effect" comment above applies here as well, and the phrase "you don't know when to stop" comes to mind.  Laurels used to be given for people that helped other people.  Now, they seem to be given as "I agree with you against your detractor".  Whoopee.  Look at the "Top Laurels" counts (both members and topic) at the right side of every forum.  How many of those are about helping people (and I don't mean helping people see your viewpoint or join your cause)?

       

      It used to be that "the American dream" was about taking advantage of the economic and educational opportunities here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream  Now, it seems that "the American dream" is whining about legal rights, entitlement, definitions of words, and (in some cases) putting down those whom you disagree with.

       

        • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
          Alex Garcia

          Well said Dean.

           

          My apologies for not doing the same when needed. I've refrained from policing these threads myself, because conversations in that vein I believe are and can be constructive.

           

          But, I have also seen what you and others have noticed. This forum was not intended to be a place to vent frustrations against B&N and was intended for fruitful conversation/support.

           

          To that end I have failed, and apologize to all of you. I'll be making a stronger effort to limit those unnecessary activities from here on out.

           

          - Alex

            • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

              "This forum was not intended to be a place to vent frustrations against B&N and was intended for fruitful conversation/support."

               

              While I agree that the topics in the recently locked threads where getting ridiculously off track. What concerns me about this statement is that it basically says there can be no fruitful discussion possible if it involved a subject matter that B&N doesn't like. It's a common problem with web forums that the moderator doesn't know the difference between "moderating" and being power drunk.


              I'm not accusing you of this, I'm just saying that it can easily look that way if done without tact and preferably, an explanation.

            • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
              patgolfneb
              I suspect a lot of us are used to being the early adopter and having our opinions sought by others in our circles. We become frustrated when our points of views are dissed. Or maybe its just me?
              • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

                "Change the Channel" comes to mind whenever this topic comes up.

                 

                :smileywink:

                • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

                  This is a tuff 1 cause I agree that some of the arguement threads do clutter up the 1st page BUT if forum members are posting then I guess thats the thread they want to particpate in. Just cause some dont like the negative vib does not give them the right to lock or delete the thread.

                   

                  Its not just the trolls and the flamers that participate in the Neg threads.

                   

                  "Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one. . . . . Don't like cigarettes?  Don't smoke them. . . Don't like abortions? Don't get one. . . . .  Don't like sex? Don't have it. . . . .  Don't like drugs? Don't do them. . . .  Don't like porn? Don't watch it. . . .  Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it. . . .  Don't like guns? Don't buy one. . . . .Don't like negative threads on a forum? Don't read/post in them.... 

                  Don't like your rights taken away??? Don't take away someone else's."


                  Its not just the trolls and the flamers that participate in the Neg threads.

                   

                  As always JMHO

                   

                  :smileyhappy:


                   

                   

                  • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
                    patgolfneb
                    It's really not about rights it's about judgment. Rather who's judgment is exercised. I don't envy Alex or BN. When posts degenerate to competitions about who is the smartest one in the room or on the forum, where do you draw the line? Allowing posters to exercise their wit is worthwhile as is healthy exchanges of ideas. When a person or group starts campaigning and facts and mutual benefits become less important than getting your way (winning) we are abusing BN hospitality. I feel Alex and BN have been generous and acted when left no choice. It might be a good idea to look at forum activity on Fridays. There are more members and guests and more posts than any other day. Most of them by people interested in the literary reviews and free Fridays books. When we get all worked up about sideloading or other issues that might restore a little humility.
                    • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

                      If someone is attacking an individual, following from thread to thread posting neg things about the individual then by all means, warn em then ban them if they continue.

                       

                      Even Ideas that we dissagree with should be allowed. Or lets be fair and lock all the "Nook color/tablet is the greatest device ever" threads too (be kinda fishey if B&N only baned the long threads that speak negativly of there device.)

                       

                      Example. I don't think B&N has ripped anyone off by closing the sideload ability. I have posted strongly that the people that do should stop bringing it into every thread that comes close to the topic. That's just my opinion. They are voicing theirs. They feel they want to be heard. As long as they don't get to personnel they should be allowed to do it.

                       

                      The "Rights" was just part of the quote . I stick with my 1st post in this thread "Change the channel if you don't wanna watch"

                       

                      Why should Alex have to try and decide what threads should be locked?

                       

                      Hell this 1 should be locked since its turned into a disagreement that has been beaten to death on this site.  Right?

                       

                       

                      :smileyhappy:

                       

                       

                      • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
                        patgolfneb
                        Phoneboy, it's a shared TV and some were making every channel show the same program.
                          • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

                            patgolfneb wrote:
                            Phoneboy, it's a shared TV and some were making every channel show the same program.

                            Yeah I get that( i.e. all the B&N ripped me off rants)

                             

                            Just like TV there are sev channels to surf. if you stop on 1 and its not to your liking you can move on til you find 1 you like.

                             

                            I have been here over a year and I dont recall ever having the whole 1st page of any sub forum(NC general, NC support etc etc) being about the same topic. Well except maybe a month or so the 1st time the nook color was rooted...lol

                             

                            What I have seen is members responding over n over to these rants with rants of their own (I'm guilty) who is right, who should get to continure the thread, who decides and what is the line that has to be crossed. 

                             

                            Maybe if people stopped LOOKING for these threads or responding to the negative posts it would not be an issue.

                             

                            Move along people, nothing to see here 

                             

                            As always...JMHO

                             

                            :smileyhappy:

                             

                             

                          • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

                            I decided to return my NT today. Got the money back and will probably wait for the iPad 3.


                            It's too bad, it was a Christmas's present and the hardware was great. I was really enjoying it. But the way B&N tried to force me to buy everything for the device from them, was just rediculous.It made this great hardware pointless.


                            Just glad my wife understands.

                              • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
                                flyingtoastr

                                sisquack wrote:

                                I decided to return my NT today. Got the money back and will probably wait for the iPad 3.


                                It's too bad, it was a Christmas's present and the hardware was great. I was really enjoying it. But the way B&N tried to force me to buy everything for the device from them, was just rediculous.It made this great hardware pointless.


                                Just glad my wife understands.



                                sisquack wrote:

                                Got the money back and will probably wait for the iPad 3.


                                It's too bad, it was a Christmas's present and the hardware was great. I was really enjoying it. But the way B&N tried to force me to buy everything for the device from them, was just rediculous.It made this great hardware pointless.



                                sisquack wrote:

                                Got the money back and will probably wait for the iPad 3.


                                ...force me to buy everything for the device from them, was just rediculous.


                                /boggle

                                 

                              • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
                                TnTexas

                                I've always assumed the laurels were meant to be used as agreements so the threads wouldn't be cluttered with simple posts of agreement ("Agreed", "This", etc,)

                                • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
                                  patgolfneb
                                  Floridaphil, I feel it was the other way around. Myself and I believe others felt that a value or a preference was being presented as a right. This value not being supported was then being presented as an attack on or denial of rights, even theft basically. When the problems with this premise, lack of legal foundation, any historical foundation was pointed out, the response was to just keep repeating yes it was a right. When a premise is false and I for one tried to point out the rhetorical fallacies, including explanation of what they were. The responses basically were insults and continued repetition of the original premise. How can you discuss an issue reasonably when one side has decided they are victims by mischaracterizing a value as a right and refuse to accept any other possibility. Many of us believe open systems are inherently better, question the business benefits of closed systems, especially if not the market leader. I believe few have an issue with attempts by Dean and many others to find ways to open devices. The adversarial tone was I feel fed by the fanatical insistence that some right had been violated and the disrespect shown to anyone who disagreed. The campaign to dominate the posts started by Adam and others further polarized the issue and guaranteed no common ground was going to be found.
                                    • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs

                                      and the disrespect shown to anyone who disagreed

                                       

                                      With respect, I think you'll find that on both sides.  Unless I'm mistaken there is to this day a B&N employee who continues to refer to the people who disagree with him as "whiners". 

                                       

                                      Again with respect, no matter how well reasoned you consider your explanation of why you think you are correct, no one else is required to accept that explanation as correct.  I hold to my position as firmly as you hold to yours, and because you cannot agree with me nor I with you should not make either opinion of lesser value that the other..  Suffice it to say that I have no desire to re-hash the matter, so let's just agree to disagree. 

                                      • Re: Deja vu all over again:  bickering on XDA-devs
                                        bobstro

                                        Gross generalizations are bad when they do it, you see, but they're ok when we do it!

                                         

                                        Despite all the claims, I really haven't seen that much outright rudeness in any of these threads. Some individuals are overheated, some immature. A few arrogant without merit. Generally, not a bad discussion though.

                                         

                                        Not sure I get the pervasive us versus them attitude regarding XDA. I hardly think it unusual to participate in both a technical and user-focused forum, and I recognize many of the names from both. Surely that's a good thing?

                                         

                                        I signed up two weeks ago, but was only aware of Adam's thread when it was pointed out here. I'm mostly here since I support 3 NOOK devices in the family now.