20 Replies Latest reply: Dec 5, 2012 4:08 PM by TelSC

    Bye Bye B&N

      I bought my wife a Nook Tablet for Mother's Day.  I experienced the well-documented (search these forums) freezing and I exchanged it.  Same result on the replacement unit.  I swapped again.  Same problem.  Now, after surfing these forums, I have realzied three things:

       

      1> The Nooks (at least the tablet) have a known defect,

      2> Nobody at B&N cares,

      3> If you want a reliable tablet you MUST consider another brand.

       

      For xmas each of my kids are getting an iPad mini.  My wife & I are getting a Samsung tablet.

       

      If you're thinking about a Nook, don't waste your time.  Not only is the device hardly usable, but there are more apps available w/the other brands.

       

      I should have known better than to buy an electronic device made by a book retailer.

       

      Bye bye B&N.

        • Re: Bye Bye B&N
          bobstro
          Sorry to hear about your experiences. I've not had this problem, but I can understand your frustration. Which Samsung tablets are you buying? I've been pleased with my SGT2 7.0. Why Apples for the kids and not Samsung?
          • Re: Bye Bye B&N

            Unfortunate that you ran into problems. I haven't run into that problem on my Nook Tablet.

             

            I think it's a known defect that affects a fraction of Nook Tablets.

            You must have been spectacularly unlucky to get 3 in a row with the defect.

             

            Best of luck with the Samsungs and the iPad Minis.

              • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                deesy58

                5ivedom wrote:

                Unfortunate that you ran into problems. I haven't run into that problem on my Nook Tablet.

                 

                I think it's a known defect that affects a fraction of Nook Tablets.

                You must have been spectacularly unlucky to get 3 in a row with the defect.

                 

                Best of luck with the Samsungs and the iPad Minis.


                Not sure why you might think it is a matter of spectacular bad luck when, in all probability, it is a software problem that, under the right circumstances, would cause any NT to freeze.  What makes you believe it might be a hardware issue? 

                  • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                    bobstro

                    There have been several problems reported over the life of the NT, but nobody but the OP is going to have enough facts to determine which specific problem it is. We can speculate, but it'll be impossible to say for certain without more info. In any case, 3 problem devices in a row is unusual.

                    • Re: Bye Bye B&N

                      Deesy58,

                       

                      It might be software or hardware.

                       

                      I think it's spectacular bad luck based on probability. I've owned a Nook Tablet for a long time and followed the forums for a long time.

                       

                      Let's assume 2% of users get the problem the OP got. That's a chance of 1 in 50. Even that is generous.

                       

                      If the user got it on 3 devices in a row that's 1 in 50 multiplied by 1 in 50 multiplied by 1 in 50.

                       

                      That's 1 in 125000.

                       

                      Which suggests that there are only 3 actual explanations

                       

                      1) That store got a bad batch.

                      2) The user is doing a particular action to trigger the issue.

                      3) Everyone else is seeing the issue but the Men in Black are wiping their memories.

                       

                      Even if we say the chance of running into that issue is 1 in 10, the chance of getting it on three devices in a row is 1 in 1,000.

                       

                      It's very interesting to me to see 2-3 forum posts every few months where users will have one particular rare problem on 3 or 4 devices in a row.

                       

                      That just suggests the store they are getting their returns from got a bad batch with the same issue OR they were just really unlucky OR it's something about the way they use the device.

                        • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                          bobstro

                          5ivedom wrote:

                          [...]

                          Which suggests that there are only 3 actual explanations

                           

                          1) That store got a bad batch.

                          2) The user is doing a particular action to trigger the issue.

                          3) Everyone else is seeing the issue but the Men in Black are wiping their memories.


                          I believe there's a 4th explanation: Lack of troubleshooting skills, both for the user (understandable) and in-store personnel (less understandable). All too often, I've had to bite my tonque at various stores as the in-store "experts" offer senseless and time-wasting advice to customers with fairly simple problems. In stores where management doesn't support staff with time for training, this can be a real problem. The short-term perceived "savings" on training is offset by less-obvious long-term increased return rates and reduced customer satisfaction.

                            • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                              roustabout

                               Bob notes "Lack of troubleshooting skills, both for the user (understandable) and in-store personnel (less understandable)"

                               

                              Yep.  As I skimmed this thread, I had two thoughts:

                               

                              1)  a one-post poster who's had, and has had trouble with, 3 nook tablets in 6 months?  That much trouble?  OK, maybe.

                               

                              2)  what the poster is describing is classic for a software incompatibility - install a few apps, and it is possible that you'll have some ugly interaction between two of them.  In principle, less likely in mobile devices due to sandboxing, but nothing's perfect. 

                              • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                deesy58

                                bobstro wrote:

                                5ivedom wrote:

                                [...]

                                Which suggests that there are only 3 actual explanations

                                 

                                1) That store got a bad batch.

                                2) The user is doing a particular action to trigger the issue.

                                3) Everyone else is seeing the issue but the Men in Black are wiping their memories.


                                I believe there's a 4th explanation: Lack of troubleshooting skills, both for the user (understandable) and in-store personnel (less understandable). All too often, I've had to bite my tonque at various stores as the in-store "experts" offer senseless and time-wasting advice to customers with fairly simple problems. In stores where management doesn't support staff with time for training, this can be a real problem. The short-term perceived "savings" on training is offset by less-obvious long-term increased return rates and reduced customer satisfaction.


                                If the problem is due to a software conflict or timing window, it might not be feasible for B&N Customer Service staff to track it down and identify it.  I can't imagine that any in-store personnel would be capable of identifying and curing such a problem.  This needs to be addressed at the depot level, or by the design engineers.  Nobody else would have the necessary tools or skills.  Swapping out a defective cable is easy.  Diagnosing a freezing problem -- not so much. 

                                  • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                    bobstro

                                    deesy58 wrote:

                                    [...] If the problem is due to a software conflict or timing window, it might not be feasible for B&N Customer Service staff to track it down and identify it.  I can't imagine that any in-store personnel would be capable of identifying and curing such a problem.   


                                    The In-Store personnel should be trained up to the level that they can contact a higher level of support at Corporate, and "tech support" should be trained up to the level that they don't claim every call is the "first time" for a well-known problem. By the sound of it, this is a common problem for some users. I would hope someone is correlating as much data to aid in pinpointing the problem.

                                     

                                    The problems on B&N's firmware are no more complicated than on other firmware. Contrast B&N's responsiveness with bugfixes to the dedicated community over at CyanogenMod for example, where a group of volunteers quickly tracks down and quashes most bugs quickly, or identify faulty hardwware design issues.

                                     

                                    I'm really dismayed to talk to recent computer engineering students who have no clue how things work underneath the hood on systems.

                                      • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                        deesy58

                                        bobstro wrote:

                                        deesy58 wrote:

                                        [...] If the problem is due to a software conflict or timing window, it might not be feasible for B&N Customer Service staff to track it down and identify it.  I can't imagine that any in-store personnel would be capable of identifying and curing such a problem.   


                                        The In-Store personnel should be trained up to the level that they can contact a higher level of support at Corporate, and "tech support" should be trained up to the level that they don't claim every call is the "first time" for a well-known problem. By the sound of it, this is a common problem for some users. I would hope someone is correlating as much data to aid in pinpointing the problem.

                                         

                                        The problems on B&N's firmware are no more complicated than on other firmware. Contrast B&N's responsiveness with bugfixes to the dedicated community over at CyanogenMod for example, where a group of volunteers quickly tracks down and quashes most bugs quickly, or identify faulty hardwware design issues.

                                         

                                        I'm really dismayed to talk to recent computer engineering students who have no clue how things work underneath the hood on systems.


                                        I think that Microsoft proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that a company can succeed without promptly repairing software flaws.  They did it with DOS.  They did it again with Windows 3.X.  They did it a third time with Windows 95 and 98.  They didn't get it right until Windows XP, such as it is.  It took them more than 20 years to produce a relatively stable and reliable OS, and they still own half the world.  Why would we expect B&N to do anything differently? 

                                  • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                    deesy58

                                    5ivedom wrote:

                                    Deesy58,

                                     

                                    It might be software or hardware.

                                     

                                    I think it's spectacular bad luck based on probability. I've owned a Nook Tablet for a long time and followed the forums for a long time.

                                     

                                    Let's assume 2% of users get the problem the OP got. That's a chance of 1 in 50. Even that is generous.

                                     

                                    If the user got it on 3 devices in a row that's 1 in 50 multiplied by 1 in 50 multiplied by 1 in 50.

                                     

                                    That's 1 in 125000.

                                     

                                    Which suggests that there are only 3 actual explanations

                                     

                                    1) That store got a bad batch.

                                    2) The user is doing a particular action to trigger the issue.

                                    3) Everyone else is seeing the issue but the Men in Black are wiping their memories.

                                     

                                    Even if we say the chance of running into that issue is 1 in 10, the chance of getting it on three devices in a row is 1 in 1,000.

                                     

                                    It's very interesting to me to see 2-3 forum posts every few months where users will have one particular rare problem on 3 or 4 devices in a row.

                                     

                                    That just suggests the store they are getting their returns from got a bad batch with the same issue OR they were just really unlucky OR it's something about the way they use the device.


                                    We need to alter our probability assignments in accordance with Bayes Theorem.  We do know some things about computers, which a NOOK Tablet clearly is.

                                     

                                    We have experience with earlier versions of a computer operating system (OS): Windows -- specifically Windows 95 and Windows 98.  We used to see these machines freeze up all the time.  We learned that we could install some flavor of Linux, or Novell NetWare, on those same machines, and the reliability and availability of the machine would increase exponentially.  That was pretty convincing evidence that the problem originated with the software, and not with the hardware.  The fact that some users experience multiple failures, while some other users experience none suggests a software conflict or a timing window.  If true, then the chances would be considerably greater in some machines than others, and rather than 1 in 125,000, the probability of multiple replacement NOOKs freezing might actually be closer to 1.00 in some configurations. 

                                     

                                    The particular action that you suggest is being taken by the user to trigger the problem might be nothing more sinister than the choices of installed applications, or the particular books being downloaded and read. 

                                     

                                    Do we believe, for example, that NOOKs will not suffer "memory leaks" if left running for too long a period?  When my NOOK freezes, it is after every third or fourth book read without powering the unit down.  Powering down and back up usually fixes the problem (for a time). 

                                     

                                    Based on my experiences with computers in the past, I would assign a much higher probability to the problem being of a software nature than of a hardware nature.   Of course, it could just be a matter of Gremlins ... :smileylol:

                                     

                                    B&N could resolve this issue quickly by simply reinstalling the OS, loading a different configuration of apps and books from the library, and testing again.  Apparently, they haven't done this, or, if they did, they elected not to tell anybody on these boards.  Given the lack of information from B&N, we are left to guess, and B&N destroys their business in slow motion -- one customer at a time. 

                              • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                cgsmom
                                I am sorry that you are not happy with your Tablet. I have had mine since January and have not had any problems. I have to reboot once in a while, but not near as often as my computer. My charging cable went bad but Barnes & Noble replaced it immediately. Good luck with your new purchases.
                                • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                  OHCholla

                                  That is some really bad luck.  My mom, my sister, and I all have the Tablet and not one of us has had that problem. 

                                  • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                    TnTexas

                                    I've had my share of frustrations with B&N and its handling of the Tablet, to the point that I don't consider myself a B&N customer anymore. That said, the Tablet itself always worked fine for me. B&N was the source of my frustrations, not the device itself.

                                      • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                        DeanGibson

                                        TnTexas wrote:

                                        I've had my share of frustrations with B&N and its handling of the Tablet, to the point that I don't consider myself a B&N customer anymore. That said, the Tablet itself always worked fine for me. B&N was the source of my frustrations, not the device itself.


                                         

                                        Exactly.  In the year I had my NT, it never gave me any problem that was not of my own making.

                                         

                                        This reminds me of the users who are on their fourth or fifth B&N USB cable.  In my opinion, in both cases the user is doing something unusual (not necessarily "wrong" in this case) to cause the problem.  Unfortunately, only the user is close enough to knowing the exact circumstances in order to reliably reproduce the problem.

                                         

                                        This could also be caused by proximity to a device that emits a lot of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference).  Examples are:

                                         

                                        • Microwaves
                                        • Old TVs
                                        • Plasma TVs
                                        • Flourescent bulbs

                                         

                                        These are not shielded devices.  OT: Does anyone know of a "Tempest" tablet?

                                      • Re: Bye Bye B&N
                                        Michael_the_Writer
                                        I bought the 16gb Nook Tablet the same week they came out and have never had any problems with it. In fact, I was confident, based on these forums, that if I had any issues my local B&N would help me. They aren't all the sharpest but I've been impressed at their attentiveness whenever I've had any questions. They haven't given me the impression they don't care. Finally, my daughter is thoroughly enjoying this device now that I have the NT HD+. Got it day one and any of my complaints are related to apps, not the Nook. Your store might have received a bad batch of units. I'm sorry you had such bad luck. Hope you enjoy your new devices.
                                        • IT IS AN ENHANCED E-READER!!!!!
                                          NookSwami

                                          if you want a good ereader, get a Nook.  If you want a tablet computer...........Get a tablet computer...  Stop being a cheapskate and get the right technology.

                                            • Re: IT IS AN ENHANCED E-READER!!!!!
                                              TelSC

                                              NookSwami wrote:

                                              if you want a good ereader, get a Nook.  If you want a tablet computer...........Get a tablet computer...  Stop being a cheapskate and get the right technology.


                                              You really don't have to pay that much more.  $160 will get a Samsung 2 7.0 with bluetooth, GPS and IR.

                                            • Re: Bye Bye B&N

                                              I've had my tablet since January and never had a bit of trouble with it. In fact, I've never even heard of the freezing problem. I'm new to this forum, but have been a regular on another forum for a few years and never heard it there either. (Maybe I'm just not reading the right threads?)

                                               

                                              The only problem I did have was with B&N charging me for my 14-day "trial" magazine that I rejected after about three days.

                                              • Re: Bye Bye B&N

                                                Sorry for your experience. I'm currently going through some problems with my tablet as well. But, before such problems it worked seemlessly.