1 2 3 40 Replies Latest reply on Oct 31, 2014 3:01 AM by luvbooksCM Go to original post
      • 15. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
        bobstro

        True, but generally we've been able to assume they haven't been rousting our hard drive in the process, and at least had clearly worded privacy statements. It's the active hunting down of information, regardless of where the user has "hidden" it that bothers me. OK, cool, if it's in my ADE-managed collection of stuff, if the Privacy Policy allows it, I can't complain. But digging around for it? Not so cool. Just how comfortable are they doing through our stuff? If they manage to get ahold of our cloud storage account credentials, should they feel free to rifle through those drawers?

        • 16. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
          keriflur

          Bob George wrote:

           

          Just how comfortable are they doing through our stuff? If they manage to get ahold of our cloud storage account credentials, should they feel free to rifle through those drawers?

          I suspect there is an easy way to see and block this kind of thing.

          • 17. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
            bobstro

            keriflur wrote:

            I suspect there is an easy way to see and block this kind of thing.

            True, though I'd rather not invite it into my home. And I suspect 90%+ of the population won't understand how to implement the necessary steps. It's the fact that a corporation feels it has the right to do things that even law enforcement would require speed bumps for that bothers me most.

             

            Hey, this is the most lively thread on the new forums so far (methinks).

            • 18. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
              keriflur

              Bob George wrote:

               

              keriflur wrote:

              I suspect there is an easy way to see and block this kind of thing.

              True, though I'd rather not invite it into my home.

              Why? What is it? (I'm not a hacker, obviously, LOL)

              • 19. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data

                bobstro wrote:

                 

                erken wrote:

                All the Nook readers and software do the exact same thing - they report back the titles and pages read of any title (including sideloaded), and report back the titles. 

                Can you cite a reference? None of the other readers, so far as I am aware, have been recorded sending not only data on ebooks in the collection they manage, but actively searching the user's hard drive for other ebooks and sending detailed data on those to the mothership as well, along with detailed user data such as account info, IP address and other clearly-identifiable information. In addition, it's all being sent in the clear with no obfuscation, allowing easy intercept and monitoring by anybody along the path with means to do so (e.g. snoopy ISPs, government agencies).

                 

                B&N confirmed it 2 years ago:
                http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304870304577490950051438304

                 

                An example from IPAD was posted on here Nook readers and Nookanalytics? - MobileRead Forums

                It was also mentioned in these forums (unanswered) Can I disable the reporting of my reading habits?

                 

                Using Fiddler2 it is possible to capture a trace from Nook Reader for Win8, and see the upload, including the filename of your side-loaded titles (as well as the internal file names - eg, ch1.xhtml)

                 

                So, yes, B&N will send account information, IP address, title, page-turn times, etc to their servers.  I think they mostly use HTTPS, so not as many people can see it.


                And while it generally doesn't matter, if you happen to become a public figure your reading history would certainly be more valuable.

                • 20. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data

                  Ah there, erken found the article about Nook analytics.  I didn't read the whole article just now but if I remember correctly Kobo and Kindle admitted to doing this also.

                   

                  I thhink keriflur said it best "I'm not sure why they'd care, though, in the US, anyway, other than for marketing purposes. I know in a lot of places this kind of thing matters, but here, information gathering is all about making money, not taking names.

                  My statement in the first reply to this was basically that.  Marketing analytics don't bother me.  It's the threat of a police state, no matter what form, that would concern me.  And this example is just not an example of that to me.  Not to say that we shouldn't keep an eye on the analytics so they don't cross that line.  But it's not here, IMO.

                   

                  Edit:  also oops, clicked wrong "reply"  this was to bobstro's question about proof of Nook analytics.

                  • 21. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                    bobstro

                    erken wrote:

                    B&N confirmed it 2 years ago:
                    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304870304577490950051438304

                    That is definitely a related case, and I do wish there were better protections in place across the board. However, the Adobe approach strikes me both as much more intrusive (looking at everything, not just what's in the app library) and clumsy (lack of any protection). Another problem with Adobe (not the book seller) doing this is that they're often (if not now, largely, the ONLY) means of obtaining non-Amazon ebook, including library books.

                     

                    I understood that you were implying it was OK for Adobe to do it because others were (which we've seen here). I agree that it's a problem when any entity does it. After all, how else did B&N determine that eink owners buy more books. If there were at least legal protections in place ensuring that such data had to be anonymized I'd be much more comfortable. As it is, that data goes onto hard drives that may be acquired by other companies in the future as assets that we have no control over.

                    • 22. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                      keriflur

                      B&N can determine easily if eink owners buy more nookbooks than non-eink owners without ever mining either computers or devices, simply by looking at account purchases and associated devices. Take all the accounts, separate them into "has eink attached to account" and "doesn't have eink attached to account" and run sales numbers on the groups. No mining required.

                      • 23. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                        bobstro

                        Depending on what exactly they mean by that statement, I suppose so.

                        • 24. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                          roustabout

                          "None of the other readers, so far as I am aware, have been recorded sending not only data on ebooks in the collection they manage, but actively searching the user's hard drive for other ebooks and sending detailed data on those to the mothership as well, along with detailed user data such as account info, IP address and other clearly-identifiable information"

                           

                          from what I saw tonight, it looks as if Ade is searching not the harddrive as a whole but the e-reader as a whole.  and even there I'm not sure that it's the entire device or the files calibre auto loads to the container the Ade app has acess to. 

                           

                          "Update: Further testing has revealed that the files being scanned were actually on my ereader, not my HD. I had not used ADE to load the files on to the ereader, and yet the app scanned them, made a list, and uploaded the list to Adobe."

                          http://the-digital-reader.com/2014/10/06/adobe-spying-users-collecting-data-ebook-libraries/

                           

                          without knowing what ereader that writer is using, or what app or apps are in play for reading on it, I don't know if what that means is that there is one directory that both Ade and calibre are supposed to scan and add content to. 

                           

                          I'm not too surprised that the nook app knows what files are in my books directory, but since it's uploading a list of my reading positions in my sideloaded books it should offer to synch them, if the same titles are on my other devices, too

                           

                          PS:  font management here seems painful

                          • 25. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data

                            bobstro wrote:
                            I understood that you were implying it was OK for Adobe to do it because others were (which we've seen here). I agree that it's a problem when any entity does it. After all, how else did B&N determine that eink owners buy more books. If there were at least legal protections in place ensuring that such data had to be anonymized I'd be much more comfortable. As it is, that data goes onto hard drives that may be acquired by other companies in the future as assets that we have no control over.

                            When observing reading data is done by all the players in the industry, singling out one actor misses the big picture.


                            B&N devices and software link reading habits to your real name, verified billing address and credit card number.  Adobe (as far as I recall) just gets an email address and library card number.


                            When B&N gets bought up, who is going to buy the treasure trove of data?  I don't believe there is any law against providing a service that checks people against their reading habits -- potential employees, potential dates, etc?  

                            • 26. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                              bobstro

                              erken wrote:

                              When observing reading data is done by all the players in the industry, singling out one actor misses the big picture.

                              I disagree. That "one actor" has far more reach into libraries, schools and homes due to it being just about the sole DRM technology for epub ebooks. I can't think of any other than Amazon with as much reach into the activities of ebook readers. Yes, others should be called out, but when Adobe does it and is called out for it, hopefully that will get the attention of more of the public. Indeed, this is happening with the libraries reviewing the implications of Adobe's actions. Saying nothing just because "others do it" is no solution.

                               

                              If a small bookseller were to try to impose terms in the way Amazon has, it wouldn't be news. It's news-worthy because Amazon has such a far reach. Same with abuse of customer and patron privacy.

                              erken wrote:

                              [...] When B&N gets bought up, who is going to buy the treasure trove of data?  I don't believe there is any law against providing a service that checks people against their reading habits -- potential employees, potential dates, etc?  

                              That's the point. Perhaps there should be laws prohibiting such behaviors for exactly that reason (among others). In fact, Adobe may have already violated several laws, particularly if they were tracking the detailed habits of minors in some jurisdictions. Then there will be the interesting international implications if they've been doing this worldwide.

                               

                              We'll be in a bad spot if we decide one day that corporations and/or government have gone too far with invading our privacy and only then trying to get it back. These entities should be obligated to present a clear case for exactly what they are doing and why they need to. Then, if we agree to those terms, they should be permitted to gather data within the limits of the stated policy.

                              • 27. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                                bobstro

                                Here's one for the XKCD fans. Over on mobileread, GlueJar passed this on:

                                 

                                "Not original to me, but setting the title to:

                                Moby Dick"); DROP DATABASE;

                                is the appropriate thing to do."

                                 

                                Looks like little Bobby Droptables is reading ebooks now.

                                • 28. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                                  DeanGibson

                                  Bob George wrote:

                                   

                                  Gah! Must figure out if it's possible to edit after posting replies.

                                  Well, I just edited a message that I posted two days ago.  Now to go see if I can edit one I posted two years ago ...

                                   

                                  The bad news is that the message I edited, marks the thread as just changed, but I don't think there is any way for a reader to find which message I changed.  Dumb if trueEdit:  when you click on "last reply", you really get that, even if it is an edit to an earlier message in the thread.  Isn't collaboration wonderful?

                                   

                                  Edit:  I just edited a 3-year-old message.

                                   

                                  Note: When you edit a message earlier in a thread, it changes the timestamp of the message (and the thread) to the time of the edit.

                                   

                                  I wonder if it's time to insert a few videos in old messages ...

                                   

                                  Edit #2: Yes, I am able to edit my previous responses in this thread.

                                  • 29. Re: Adobe Confirms It’s Gathering Ebook Readers’ Data
                                    bobstro

                                    Dean Gibson wrote:

                                    [...] Well, I just edited a message that I posted two days ago.  Now to go see if I can edit one I posted two years ago ...

                                     

                                    The bad news is that the message I edited, marks the thread as just changed, but I don't think there is any way for a read to find which message I changed.  Dumb if true.

                                    From what I can see, the original message in a thread can be edited, but not responses. I've gotten into the habit of tweaking after posting to clarify points. I can see that I need to use an external editor for lengthy stuff that I care about.

                                     

                                    Surprisingly, I'm able to paste some elaborate formatting from LibreOffice Writer. Looks like I can use font and color changes and other features not directly supported in the web editor:

                                     

                                    This is a test using some mixed formatting pasted directly from LibreOffice Writer ʘ11

                                    1Footnote

                                     

                                    Now we can really geek out!

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