39 Replies Latest reply on Dec 2, 2014 10:20 AM by AnitaInTN

    Downloading B&N digital books

    claudiaputnam

      It's just an epub/acsm file, right? So shouldn't I just be able to click a download button and then load it to Adobe Digital Editions? I don't have a nook, but an epub is an epub, right? It should work on a Kobo, right? And what does B&N care, if I paid for the book? But I don't see a download button... I seem only to have the option to read on my computer.

        • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
          MacMcK1957

          You would think that B&N would want to sell books to people who don't have Nooks, wouldn't you?  No, they disabled the Download button a few months ago.  There's a workaround.  Install Nook for PC.  You can then open it and download there. Your books will be downloaded into your My Documents folder under "My Barnes & Noble eBooks".  Then you can move the epub files and load them into ADE.

          • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
            keriflur

            Use ADE 2.7 - the later versions are buggy. You can still locate a download if you google for it.

            • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
              MacMcK1957

              Just to be clear, it needs to be the credit card card number currently on your account at the time you do the download, all numbers, no spaces. Your name needs to be as it exists on your B&N account (double check your account page just to be sure) not what's on your card.

               

              Edit:

              I just installed a fresh copy of ADE 4.0 on a computer where I didn't have it before, and was able to open both an epub I had downloaded to Nook for PC a year ago and one I just downloaded tonight.  Both worked just fine.  The user name was not case-sensitive.  I put it in all in lower case, firstname space lastname.  (Not as it is on my credit card, where there's a middle initial.)

              • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                lkmiller

                If you've recently changed your default credit card, you will no longer be able to use your name and cc number to open drmed nookbooks in ADE or other non-BN apps.  BN is transitioning over to new encryption keys to prevent sideloading.

                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                    keriflur

                    lkmiller wrote:

                     

                    If you've recently changed your default credit card, you will no longer be able to use your name and cc number to open drmed nookbooks in ADE or other non-BN apps.  BN is transitioning over to new encryption keys to prevent sideloading.

                    Was there a press release or customer notification about this? It seems like something that should have been disclosed.

                     

                    If this is true, it blocks every single benefit of Social DRM and leaves zero incentive for buying B&N books.

                      • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                        bobstro

                        If they've gone that far, they've gone completely overboard.

                          • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                            lkmiller

                            Oh, they have gone that far.  We've been discussing it over on the MobileRead forums.  It started happening around the same time they removed the download buttons from the Nook Library webpage.  When asked about that, BN replied they were no longer supporting sideloading.  People shared responses they received through Twitter and email.  BN is actively enforcing that stance.

                             

                            They've lost me as a paying customer.  Their "social DRM" was one of the big reasons I preferred BN over other ebook sellers.  I liked reading in the Mantano reader on my Nook HD.  And I could share the occasional book with my husband (our tastes only overlap a little!).  But ever since I changed my default credit card about a month ago, this isn't possible with newly downloaded nookbooks.

                              • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                MacMcK1957

                                But the old social DRM continues to function as long as you're still using the old card?  Weird.  I would have thought it would change for all newly downloaded materials, but I just confirmed I could open a new download yesterday.  I have been using the same card number forever.

                                  • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                    lkmiller

                                    Yes, until you change your account info, you will still have the old social DRM function.  You might be okay if you just need to edit your expiration date, but I'm not sure.  I was affected when I added a completely new card that wasn't on my account before and made it the default.  Changing back to the old card did not help either.

                          • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                            MacMcK1957

                            Actually I did just update my expiration date last week, so that didn't affect it.

                              • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                lkmiller

                                Oh, good!  Thanks for letting us know that.  My husband's account is still on the old system.  Glad to hear we should be able to keep it that way unless BN gets more proactive about switching accounts over.  Not that we're buying anything new, but this way we can still download new copies of old purchases from his account.

                                  • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                    MacMcK1957

                                    I have actually downloaded every single book in my account, and download new ones as I buy them.  The day I stop being able to open them, I will stop buying them.

                                    • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                      keriflur

                                      I just got a new card in the mail - same number, new expiration date. Fingers crossed I have the same luck as MacMck.

                                       

                                      I wonder, how are they changing the encryption on older devices and apps? I haven't applied software updates to my N1E or my PC app in years.

                                        • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                          MacMcK1957

                                          keriflur wrote:

                                           

                                          I just got a new card in the mail - same number, new expiration date. Fingers crossed I have the same luck as MacMck.

                                           

                                          I wonder, how are they changing the encryption on older devices and apps? I haven't applied software updates to my N1E or my PC app in years.

                                          Without a software update on the N1E, they would have to continue using the old DRM scheme, wouldn't they?  And unlike later models, those downloaded files are accessible and can be copied.

                                           

                                           

                                          Might make the N1E more valuable to have.  Mine is now for sale, $1,500.

                                            • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                              keriflur

                                              There's also Roust's SD card hack for the NST and NSTG.

                                               

                                              I would think all the devices  and apps would need a software update to use a new encryption model. I can see how that would easily be applied to the Samsung Nooks, but everything else - we'd know if updates were happening.

                                              • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                LarryOnLI

                                                MacMcK1957 wrote:

                                                 

                                                keriflur wrote:

                                                 

                                                I just got a new card in the mail - same number, new expiration date. Fingers crossed I have the same luck as MacMck.

                                                 

                                                I wonder, how are they changing the encryption on older devices and apps? I haven't applied software updates to my N1E or my PC app in years.

                                                Without a software update on the N1E, they would have to continue using the old DRM scheme, wouldn't they?  And unlike later models, those downloaded files are accessible and can be copied.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Might make the N1E more valuable to have.  Mine is now for sale, $1,500.

                                                Unfortunately that is not the case.

                                                 

                                                The way this works is that B&N generates (or used to generate) an encryption key from the name on your account and the number of the credit card you had set as default on your account.

                                                 

                                                Whenever you changed your default credit card B&N generated a new encryption key to use when downloading books.

                                                 

                                                When you sign into your B&N account on a NOOK device or App, the key from your B&N account is securely downloaded to your device. This is why you never need to enter an unlock code when you are reading on a NOOK device or App, just sign into your account.

                                                 

                                                To change this all B&N has to do is no longer base the generated encryption code on your account name and credit card number. They can use any random key generation algorithm they want.

                                                 

                                                When you sign into your B&N account with your NOOK device or app, the B&N generated key is downloaded to your device. No software change or update is required on your device.

                                                 

                                                However when you try to open your book in non B&N app, you have no idea what information was used to generate the encryption key.

                                                  • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                    keriflur

                                                    Well, Google Play it is, then.

                                                    • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                      lkmiller

                                                      Yes, that is exactly how it works.  I have no trouble opening any of my books on Nook devices or Nook apps (including my 1st ed Nook).  They have access to whatever key is on my account -- it doesn't matter how the key is created.  But I'm unable to open new downloads in ADE, Mantano, or sideloaded to a Nook logged into another account.  Believe me I've tried every combo of user name and password I can think of.  It probably is just a randomly generated key and no longer based on any specific account info.

                                                      • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                        LarryOnLI

                                                        One possible reason/result of doing this.

                                                         

                                                        Since the encryption key for your books is no longer based on your default credit card, they can eliminate the need to have a credit card attached to the account.

                                                         

                                                        A long time complaint on this forum was the need for a credit card and not inability for people without credit cards (such as minors) to purchase and download books using just a gift card.

                                                         

                                                        With the credit card no longer required for generating encryption keys, this requirement goes away, making B&N more like amazon.

                                                          • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                            keriflur

                                                            LarryOnLI wrote:

                                                             

                                                            One possible reason/result of doing this.

                                                             

                                                            Since the encryption key for your books is no longer based on your default credit card, they can eliminate the need to have a credit card attached to the account.

                                                             

                                                            A long time complaint on this forum was the need for a credit card and not inability for people without credit cards (such as minors) to purchase and download books using just a gift card.

                                                             

                                                            With the credit card no longer required for generating encryption keys, this requirement goes away, making B&N more like amazon.

                                                            Everything about this makes B&N more like Amazon.

                                                             

                                                            The rub here is that B&N has not removed the credit card requirement. And B&N still often charges more per book.

                                                             

                                                            Basically, B&N is removing all the positive factors that make them different from Amazon (more open format, share across family members), but leaving all the negative factors (requires a credit card, devices are lesser, prices are often higher).

                                                              • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                                junonia-shell

                                                                The expiration date on my cc is 2017. So hopefully I'm good for a while. But I suspect by then, at the rate B and N is going, they're going to be out of business any way.

                                                                • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                                  lkmiller

                                                                  keriflur,

                                                                   

                                                                  I agree.  B&N is giving up their one advantage over Amazon.  They really can't compete on price and selection.  It was a serious factor in my decision to choose them over Amazon way back when I got my original Nook.  And why I would almost always pick their store ever since.  Not anymore though, it's Google, Kobo, and Amazon in a pinch.  B&N only for the occasional freebie.

                                                                  • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                                    AnitaInTN

                                                                    What Keriflur said.... 

                                                                    "Basically, B&N is removing all the positive factors that make them different from Amazon (more open format, share across family members), but leaving all the negative factors (requires a credit card, devices are lesser, prices are often higher)."

                                                                     

                                                                    Practical result over the last few weeks:  I am avoiding DRM-encumbered books.  Yes, I am (probably) still under the old social DRM that is reasonable...but the only way I will know BN "upgrades" me is when a book suddenly cannot be unlocked.  Given the bull-headed foolishness over this by BN, it is only a matter of time until they get around to the rest of us.  The first week, I bought just 2 e-books as test cases.  One BAEN (chore-less handling).  One from a DRM-phile publisher (in the chore line).  This past weekend, I bought 6 e-books.  All TOR, and by their policy, DRM-free.  I don't have to test any of them (or find a freebie for a test case).

                                                                     

                                                                    For the forsee-able future, at least in BN's garden, clearly marked "DRM free" books from such publishers as BAEN, TOR, and Simon & Schuster's new SAGA (when they show up) have a definite competitive advantage with me.  The others have a steep competitive disadvantage.  It has cost one author 3 books sales, twice now.  I have looked at, then not purchased (again) Chris Marie Green's "Another One Bites the Dust" plus the other two in that series.  This is a "new to me" author.  Congratulations! Success! No pirated books!  (3 lost sales, but who is counting?)  And that's just the author I remember specifically.

                                                                     

                                                                    I will eventually get back to "general" buying of e-books, when I finish all my library management chores. This may be awhile - I have a lot of books.  I would rather not be bothered with these; I would rather read!  I was just as happy without Adobe ADE while working with BN's social DRM.  Apparently, it is no longer an option for me to avoid ADE.

                                                                     

                                                                    In all seriousness, BN mgt - I and many other readers will never accept non-un-lockable books.  I cannot depend on BN's continued support of Nook Apps 20yr from now.  (For a number of Android Nook App customers - it was down a week or two already when the Nook App update was not ready for an Android update!)   I would go back to DTBs first.  Except, of course, I do not have to.  BN needs to compete on advantages over the others - don't try to be a clone.  This new policy will not stop real pirates, and it is already affecting your sales (my would-have-been purchases).   A far better use of your Nook programmers' time would be to work on enhancing the Nook user experience  (shelf management, anyone?).

                                                                    4 of 4 people found this helpful
                                                                  • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                                    lkmiller

                                                                    You might not need a cc on file anymore.  Someone over at MobileRead reported that they were able to "buy" a free nookbook when their cc on file was out of date.  It wasn't expired but the number had changed due to the Home Depot breach.  Don't know if this would still work if the card was just expired or if you didn't have a cc on your account at all.

                                                                      • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                                        keriflur

                                                                        lkmiller wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        You might not need a cc on file anymore.  Someone over at MobileRead reported that they were able to "buy" a free nookbook when their cc on file was out of date.  It wasn't expired but the number had changed due to the Home Depot breach.  Don't know if this would still work if the card was just expired or if you didn't have a cc on your account at all.

                                                                        Wouldn't this have worked anyway? All the Social DRM needs is a number and a name.

                                                                         

                                                                        I learned years ago, after fighting with my CC company about it, that if you set up an account to bill you automatically, the charges will continue to go through even if the card is marked as stolen - they'll just hit your account like the did previously. And I saw this recently when I had a fraud issue on my card and had it replaced a year ago. I'd set a monthly auto-donation to a local charity and never updated the card information when the number changed, but the continued to be able to "bill" me for over 6 months afterward. Now obviously purchases at B&N are not subscriptions, but I would expect B&N is seen as an approved vendor for many of us.

                                                                          • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                                            lkmiller

                                                                            Well, I would have assumed it wouldn't work, but I don't really know.  I thought it might indicate that BN wasn't checking for a valid cc when there wasn't an actual charge being made.  But from what your saying it might have gone through even if there was a charge.  I know I'd be pretty pissed at my bank if they approved any new charges to the old number even if it was for a vendor I'd normally used before.  Kinda defeats the purpose of changing it -- who's to say a thief wouldn't be an ebook reader too?

                                                                            • Re: Downloading B&N digital books
                                                                              LarryOnLI

                                                                              keriflur wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              lkmiller wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              You might not need a cc on file anymore.  Someone over at MobileRead reported that they were able to "buy" a free nookbook when their cc on file was out of date.  It wasn't expired but the number had changed due to the Home Depot breach.  Don't know if this would still work if the card was just expired or if you didn't have a cc on your account at all.

                                                                              Wouldn't this have worked anyway? All the Social DRM needs is a number and a name.

                                                                               

                                                                              I learned years ago, after fighting with my CC company about it, that if you set up an account to bill you automatically, the charges will continue to go through even if the card is marked as stolen - they'll just hit your account like the did previously. And I saw this recently when I had a fraud issue on my card and had it replaced a year ago. I'd set a monthly auto-donation to a local charity and never updated the card information when the number changed, but the continued to be able to "bill" me for over 6 months afterward. Now obviously purchases at B&N are not subscriptions, but I would expect B&N is seen as an approved vendor for many of us.

                                                                              I had the opposite experience. Had to get a new number because of fraudulent charges, and all automatic transactions failed until I updated them with the new number.