87 Replies Latest reply on Mar 26, 2015 12:40 PM by keriflur

    DRM change?

    keriflur

      I bought a book today and cannot future-proof it. Anyone else seeing this issue?

       

      I know another poster said that B&N was changing the DRM format for people who changed their credit card. Maybe they're getting to the folks that haven't now?

       

      (FYI - I would have bought the book from Play, but that store doesn't have it, and Kobo is charging $5 more than B&N, so I bought it from B&N. I *could* have bought it from Amazon for the same price as B&N, but I chose to support B&N over Amazon. I guess this will be the last time for that.)

       

      Obviously I can still read the book on my nook, my phone, etc., but what happens when (yes, I'm going with "when") B&N goes under? Seems like I just bought a rather short-term license.

        • Re: DRM change?
          Froide

          This topic - and its resolution - was discussed over at Mobileread

          If you have the latest version of Alf's plug-in, the workaround is explained in the help file for the B&N area of the customization dialog.

           

          You will need Nookstudy which can be downloaded from here:

          https://yuzu.com/nsdownload

          3 of 3 people found this helpful
            • Re: DRM change?
              Froide

              Dagblasted Jive won't let me edit my post.  I DO know when to use "was" v. "were", even though my post, above, doesn't reflect that.

                • Re: DRM change?
                  keriflur

                  Froide wrote:

                   

                  I DO know when to use "was" v. "were", even though my post, above, doesn't reflect that.

                  Lol, maybe I don't? I thought that, since "and its resolution" was separated out as its own clause via the hyphens (which I read as "internet" for m-dashes), that you really only had the one subject, so the singular verb was in agreement with the singular subject. Is that not correct?

                • Re: DRM change?
                  kamas716

                  Thanks Froide. I ran into the same problem last weekend when I was updating my library. Fortunately it only affected one book, but I've pretty much lost interest in buying from B&N anymore because of things like this. I'll have to check out the mobilereads forum.

                  • Re: DRM change?
                    keriflur

                    That article isn't *completely* accurate, at least in my case. The article says you can only download to Yuzu. The book I bought downloaded to both my Nook for PC app and my N1E just fine, and is readable on both.

                      • Re: DRM change?
                        MacMcK1957

                        I have just verified that the books I downloaded to Nook for PC over a month ago (last one was 1/26/15) can be de-DRM'ed and future-proofed using the Calibre plug-in from Apprentice Alf.  A book I downloaded this past weekend cannot.  (it's just a freebie, Treasure Island.)  I have not updated anything in my configuration, so clearly B&N has changed the encryption scheme.

                         

                        If I have no way to unlock the books and back them up, I have to seriously question whether I will purchase any further books from B&N.

                          • Re: DRM change?
                            keriflur

                            MacMcK1957 wrote:

                             

                            If I have no way to unlock the books and back them up, I have to seriously question whether I will purchase any further books from B&N.

                            I won't.

                             

                            B&N used to be the only place I bought books.

                            I lost faith in their shipping when books started showing up days after they should have arrived, without their shipping status being updated.

                            I lost faith in their stores when the toy section took over more than a third of my local store, and when I struggled to find award-winning authors on the shelves.

                            And now I've lost faith in their support of readers and authors. Between the DRM change, the partnership with Author Solutions, their turn away from e-ink, etc., I just can't find a reason to stick with this company. I've tried, I *want* to keep loving this store (if I didn't, I would have left a long time ago), but they've removed just about every reason I could come up with to stay.

                             

                            So I will rock on with buying my ebooks from Google, my devices from Amazon, and my HC and PBs from the wonderful indie shops University Bookstore, Elliott Bay Book Company, and Powell's Books. Maybe B&N will turn things around and I'll find a reason to shop there again, but I suspect that ship has not only sailed, but floundered on the rocks and is darn close to sinking.

                            • Re: DRM change?
                              kamas716

                              B&N is actively driving my business away. I still can't get Nook-for-PC or NookStudy to work on either my XP or Win7 machine. Making it difficult for me to back up my library is frustrating. Making it even harder for me to actually use my Nooks in the same way they were sold to me (can't unlock NookBooks I've sideloaded to my microSD card now) and can't futureproof them in case something happens to the company or their servers doesn't make me want to do anymore business with the company if I can avoid it. About the only eBooks I'm getting from them are free ones I can't get from GooglePlay or stuff that's DRM free (almost all of which is available from GooglePlay or Baen).

                                • Re: DRM change?
                                  luvbooksCM

                                  I haven't been able to get Nook for PC to update, either. It's been months since it's worked properly.

                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                      MacMcK1957

                                      luvbooksCM wrote:

                                       

                                      I haven't been able to get Nook for PC to update, either. It's been months since it's worked properly.

                                      So basically, B&N is instituting an official policy that their e-books may only be read with their apps, and they can't even get their apps to work consistently.

                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                      gb18

                                      The powers in publishing hate ebooks (unless they can make them as expensive as hardcover). All this is just trying to destroy the concept.

                                       

                                      Booksellers happy as paper wins......

                                       

                                      http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/paper-books-rise-in-popularity-again-leaving-ebook/2553727/

                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                          Mercury_Glitch

                                          To be fair B&N discontinued support for Nook for PC and Nook for Mac sometime back, they just didn't remove the pages that have the downloads.

                                           

                                          Nook Study still works, and should do what the Nook apps did.

                                           

                                          Note I'm not defending the policy change, just the lack of support they've given to applications they no longer officially offer.

                                            • Re: DRM change?
                                              keriflur

                                              Mercury_Glitch wrote:

                                               

                                              To be fair B&N discontinued support for Nook for PC and Nook for Mac sometime back, they just didn't remove the pages that have the downloads.

                                               

                                              Nook Study still works, and should do what the Nook apps did.

                                               

                                              Note I'm not defending the policy change, just the lack of support they've given to applications they no longer officially offer.

                                              You mean Yuzu? I suspect they changed the name so that folks wouldn't think it was only for students, but they changed it to a name that is meaningless to most folks.

                                               

                                              Maybe it's a marketing issue? They need to market this app as the new Nook for PC/Mac, not just as the new Nook Study.

                                               

                                              FWIW, I keep forgetting the app exists.

                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                roustabout

                                                MG writes "B&N discontinued support for Nook for PC and Nook for Mac sometime back, they just didn't remove the pages that have the downloads."

                                                 

                                                They neglected to do a bit more than get rid the download page - they don't say on that page, at least anywhere I can see it,"by the way, this software is no longer supported." 

                                                 

                                                For those who like ebooks, epub format ebooks, and the Nook app on their platform of choice - you can futureproof Kindle titles pretty easily too, and once you've done so you can pick your own format.

                                                 

                                                It's not always perfect, but BNs titles weren't always perfectly laid out, either.

                                                  • Re: DRM change?
                                                    Mercury_Glitch

                                                    I presumed the hiding of the pages was their way of discontinuing support.  But who knows, I've long ago given up trying to figure what anyone above the store level it thinking.

                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                      keriflur

                                                      roustabout wrote:

                                                      For those who like ebooks, epub format ebooks, and the Nook app on their platform of choice - you can futureproof Kindle titles pretty easily too, and once you've done so you can pick your own format.

                                                       

                                                      It's not always perfect, but BNs titles weren't always perfectly laid out, either.

                                                      There is a bit of a rub here - there's as yet no way to strip DRM from a KF8 file, so to convert you have to download a mobi version (which is what the kindle for pc app downloads - I assume the mac app is the same). Mobi lacks a lot of formatting support, so you're converting from a lesser version. I'm not saying it doesn't work, or that the files come out poorly (they don't in my experience), but you might be missing some pretty that you'd get if you just bought an epub version to begin with.

                                                       

                                                      Since Google and Kobo are happy to sell you epub format (well, sometimes Kobo is happy to sell epubs) and Google generally sells at the same price as Amazon, there's very little reason to deal with the conversion, just buy the epub.

                                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                  • Re: DRM change?
                                                    keriflur

                                                    gb18 wrote:

                                                     

                                                    The powers in publishing hate ebooks (unless they can make them as expensive as hardcover). All this is just trying to destroy the concept.

                                                    Not true. If they hated books, they'd simply stop making them. And what B&N is doing has nothing to do with the publishers. Google and Kobo aren't changing anything. B&N is choosing this, I suspect because upper management doesn't really understand ebooks.

                                                      • Re: DRM change?
                                                        LarryOnLI

                                                        keriflur wrote:

                                                         

                                                        gb18 wrote:

                                                         

                                                        The powers in publishing hate ebooks (unless they can make them as expensive as hardcover). All this is just trying to destroy the concept.

                                                        Not true. If they hated books, they'd simply stop making them. And what B&N is doing has nothing to do with the publishers. Google and Kobo aren't changing anything. B&N is choosing this, I suspect because upper management doesn't really understand ebooks.

                                                        Google and Kobo aren't changing because they were not using a "social DRM" scheme that depended on people not sharing the unlock code (their credit card number).

                                                         

                                                        One of the reasons I chose B&N over other options when I first got into eBooks was B&N's social DRM.

                                                         

                                                        The change B&N has made, using a generated key, rather than the credit card, seems like the quickest and least costly way to get away from the social DRM.

                                                         

                                                        The reason I think this was somehow pushed on B&N is that I can see no advantage to them in doing this. Just to the publishers.

                                                          • Re: DRM change?
                                                            keriflur

                                                            LarryOnLI wrote:

                                                             

                                                            The reason I think this was somehow pushed on B&N is that I can see no advantage to them in doing this. Just to the publishers.

                                                            The rub here is that you're stating it as fact, when you actually have no idea why B&N made this choice. The actual facts are that B&N is the only one changing their DRM, and they are NOT changing it to industry-standard ADE, that B&N is the only one preventing users from downloading the epub versions (or in Amazon's case, the mobi versions) of their books, and that B&N is the only one requiring users to re-log-in when using a web reading app. The odds that the pubs are cracking down on B&N but no one else? Not too likely. The odds that B&N is making choices because they think the changes will increase sales by blocking pirating and sharing?  Seems a lot more likely to me.

                                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                                LarryOnLI

                                                                keriflur wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                LarryOnLI wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                The reason I think this was somehow pushed on B&N is that I can see no advantage to them in doing this. Just to the publishers.

                                                                The rub here is that you're stating it as fact, when you actually have no idea why B&N made this choice. The actual facts are that B&N is the only one changing their DRM, and they are NOT changing it to industry-standard ADE, that B&N is the only one preventing users from downloading the epub versions (or in Amazon's case, the mobi versions) of their books, and that B&N is the only one requiring users to re-log-in when using a web reading app. The odds that the pubs are cracking down on B&N but no one else? Not too likely. The odds that B&N is making choices because they think the changes will increase sales by blocking pirating and sharing?  Seems a lot more likely to me.

                                                                Keri,

                                                                First off I thought I was very clear in stating my opinion was just that. If I failed to make it clear that I am only stating my opinion and not fact I apologize.

                                                                 

                                                                Second, I stand by my opinion that this was somehow pushed on B&N by content providers because it is so very easy to get around B&N's social DRM.

                                                                 

                                                                The fact is previously you could put a VISA gift card with $1 on it as the default credit card on your account, download your entire library, encrypted with the code on the gift card, and then share the books using the gift card number. Whether this was actually done I do not know.

                                                                 

                                                                Also many people, myself included, "future proofed", or B&N purchases very easily. Honest people like us of course would not then share the still copyrighted works, but others might have, prompting content providers to put pressure on B&N to make it harder to unlock content.

                                                                 

                                                                The encryption code for the book was previously generated by a supposedly one way hash of the credit card number. Perhaps it has come to B&N's attention that someone was able to reverse that and get the original credit card number from the encrypted book. This seems unlikely to me, but would be a good reason for no longer using the credit card number to generate the encryption code.

                                                                 

                                                                You mention B&N not going to the industry standard ADE for DRM. The reason for this seems clear to me as an IT person, of course I could be wrong as always. When a NOOK device or App is registered to a B&N account, the encryption key for that account is downloaded to the device. If you wanted to stop using the credit card number to generate the encryption key, then just putting a random number generator on the B&N servers would allow you to disable the ability for users to unlock their eBooks without any software changes.

                                                                 

                                                                Changing to standard ADE encryption would require new software on all B&N devices and Apps before books could be downloaded and read. Changing to this would be extremely disruptive.

                                                                 

                                                                I still see no advantage to B&N in making this change. I understand you see increased sales because books can't be shared as easily. I see reduced sales because the list of devices that can read B&N content is reduced.

                                                                  • Re: DRM change?
                                                                    bobstro

                                                                    Whatever B&N's motivations, they could have avoided a lot of frustration if they'd both announced the changes up front instead of surprising their paying customers, and given some hint of why this move was important. With no word from B&N explaining the situation, all we can do is speculate and vent about how much its inconveniences us. That's the worst situation for all concerned.

                                                                     

                                                                    What's particularly puzzling is that the new DRM scheme doesn't sound a whit more robust than the old, so while legitimate paying customers are frustrated, anybody wanting to share and actually engage in piracy hasn't been inconvenienced in the least (even in the unlikely event pirates operate in this manner.)

                                                                      • Re: DRM change?
                                                                        DeanGibson

                                                                        Bob George wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        Whatever B&N's motivations, they could have avoided a lot of frustration if they'd both announced the changes up front instead of surprising their paying customers, and given some hint of why this move was important. With no word from B&N explaining the situation, all we can do is speculate and vent about how much its inconveniences us. That's the worst situation for all concerned.

                                                                         

                                                                        Was the above text copied from a variety of messages on various topics on the B&N forums over the years???  It sure seems so, whether the topic was DRM or firmware updates, etc.

                                                                         

                                                                        A commercial transaction is normally considered an "arm's length" contract.  B&N has consistently considered it a terrorist act, to be viewed with distrust at all times.  I'm 70 years old, and B&N is the only company that I ever have seen the need to write senior B&N management about the performance of a local store assistant manager (who seemed to view me as a combination of thief and industrial spy).  I haven't been in a local (5 miles) B&N store for over a year.  Compare that to the evil, hated Amazon:

                                                                         

                                                                        I recently bought two hardback copies of "Millions of Cats" (a 32-page picture book for "kids"):  one for myself, and one for my 98-year-old mother (who used to tell the story from memory).  While I checked B&N's price and availability out of curiosity, I didn't even CONSIDER them for the purchase.  Why?  Not because of the price, but for convenience.  There's never any hassle with Amazon.

                                                                         

                                                                        When you contact Amazon's customer service for any reason (even your own mistake), they immediately (ie, in a 24/7 eWorld -- hey, I like that term) make it right, and then they apologize for my own mistake.  I have bought things (little electronic thingies for $8) on Saturday morning, and they were delivered to my house six hours later, for a total shipping charge (I have Amazon Prime) of $5.99.  That's less than the cost of driving to the local electronics store that has them (not to mention the time involved). If I had selected Sunday delivery, it would have been $3.99.

                                                                         

                                                                        In an indication of the difference in Amazon's customer service, my sister is the one that pays for Amazon Prime.  She is allowed to add additional family members, like me and my parents (at three separate addresses) to be on the same account.  We (my parents and I) don't get Amazon's free video like the subscriber does, but we do get the shipping deals.  Could this sharing of the account be abused?  Of course, but Amazon apparently takes a wider view.  Of, course, B&N's view is down a sewer pipe.

                                                                         

                                                                        There is an eBook I intend to buy from B&N when it's available (on March 18).  I intend to download it to the Nook 1st Ed, and then transfer it to my PC (for backup, not reading).  If I can't then immediately read it on the PC without messing around with DRM, that will be the end of B&N for me.  I've already finished it in paperback form (bought from Amazon and loaned to me, so no B&N revenue), and I've decided I don't want it as part of my permanent library.  So, now reading another hardback (bought from Amazon and loaned to me, so no B&N revenue here either).  However, this book I'd like to keep as part of my permanent library (ie, independent of B&N remaining in business), so I decided to buy it in eBook form from B&N.  Guess what?  When I copy it from the Nook 1st Edition, I find that the previous B&N authorization in ADE works on all the older eBooks, but not on this new eBook.

                                                                          • Re: DRM change?
                                                                            bobstro

                                                                            Dean Gibson wrote:

                                                                            Dean! Good to see you here again. Things have been quiet, though no less frustrating here as of late.

                                                                            [...] Was the above text copied from a variety of messages on various topics on the B&N forums over the years???  It sure seems so, whether the topic was DRM or firmware updates, etc.

                                                                            I probably should save it as a keyboard macro by now...

                                                                            A commercial transaction is normally considered an "arm's length" contract.  B&N has consistently considered it a terrorist act, to be viewed with distrust at all times.  I'm 70 years old, and B&N is the only company that I ever have seen the need to write senior B&N management about the performance of a local store assistant manager (who seemed to view me as a combination of thief and industrial spy). 

                                                                            Do tell, Dean. What was that all about?

                                                                            [...] When you contact Amazon's customer service for any reason (even your own mistake), they immediately (ie, in a 24/7 eWorld -- hey, I like that term) make it right, and then they apologize for my own mistake.  I have bought things (little electronic thingies for $8) on Saturday morning, and they were delivered to my house six hours later, for a total shipping charge (I have Amazon Prime) of $5.99.  If I had selected Sunday delivery, it would have been $3.99.

                                                                            The traditional response is that Amazon is huge and B&N doesn't have the same resources, but that doesn't mean they can't try.

                                                                            [...] There is an eBook I intend to buy from B&N when it's available (on March 18).  I intend to download it to the Nook 1st Ed, and then transfer it to my PC (for backup, not reading).  If I can't then immediately read it on the PC without messing around with DRM, that will be the end of B&N for me.

                                                                            Understandable. I've already made that jump, much as I tried to resist it. The last time I felt good about B&N's direction was that short week around my purchase of the original NGTS7. My experience has been a gradual decay of satisfaction ever since.

                                                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                DeanGibson

                                                                                Bob George wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                Dean Gibson wrote:

                                                                                ...  I'm 70 years old, and B&N is the only company that I ever have seen the need to write senior B&N management about the performance of a local store assistant manager (who seemed to view me as a combination of thief and industrial spy).

                                                                                Do tell, Dean. What was that all about?

                                                                                 

                                                                                A month after I bought my 1st Nook (a Nook color in April, 2011), I bought a 2nd one at a local pawn shop.  It came with paperwork suggesting that the original buyer had bought an extended warranty, and my reading of the extended warranty was that it was transferable.  So, I went to the local B&N to transfer the warranty.  I encountered the assistant store manager, who said, "That [buying it at a pawn shop] is super illegal.  No, the warranty is not transferable."  [I'm not sure whether "super illegal" is to be compared to Orwell's "double-plus illegal". but that's a separate discussion.]

                                                                                 

                                                                                Note to readers:  Pawn shops (at least in Washington state) have to list pawned items with the local police, and then hold them for 30 days, in order to detect stolen items.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Well, believing that the ass't store manager didn't know what she was talking about, I went back to the customer service desk, told them what the ass't manager had said, and asked them.  They called B&N internal support, and not only verified that the warranty was transferable, but transferred it on the spot.  It was clear to me that the B&N employees at the customer service desk were well aware of the ass't manager's "temperament".

                                                                                 

                                                                                Later, I was standing at the Nook kiosk, talking to the B&N employee manning the kiosk about the Nook when a customer approached.  I immediately stopped talking to the B&N employee and let her talk to the customer.  When the ass't manager saw me there, she came up to me and said in a nasty way, that she didn't appreciate me telling other people where they could buy a used Nook.  Since I had said absolutely zero to the customer (not even "hi"), I told the bitch (anyone want to argue about my use of this term in this situation??) that I has not even spoken to the customer.  I then left the store.  I mostly forgot about the incident, passing it off as someone having a bad day.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Some time (a month or so later), I came into the store, and saw the ass't manager (but did not immediately recognize her).  I asked her (like you would ask someone if they are having a good day), "How are Nook sales?"  Her response: "That's proprietary information."

                                                                                 

                                                                                I guess the store is best left to the students who come to use the free WiFi for six hours a day in the coffee area, and to the mothers who bring their crying children.  The food used to be good, but had deteriorated in the last year I visited the local store.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Oh, and I forgot:  At another local B&N store, I met someone to complete a Craigslist sale at a table in the coffee area.  A manager came up, saw me handing a camera to the other person, and asked if this was a sale.  When I said yes, he told us that we could not do that in his store.  So, we went to a local Starbucks to complete the transaction.  I will note that local Starbucks stores are often used for the completion of local Craigslist transactions, and I have never heard a complaint, even when (on one occasion) it's clear that the other person regularly is transacting business (eg, rooting Nooks on the spot for a $25 fee) in the store for several hours at a time.  It's clear Starbucks employees know what 's going on, because when I arrive at the store they ask me what I want, I tell time what I'm doing there.  I even asked one Starbucks manager (after the 2nd B&N store incident) if there was any policy in this regard, and was told that, "there is no problem unless there is a problem".

                                                                                 

                                                                                Of course it is B&N's right to restrict activities in their stores.  I just think this "every customer is a terrorist to be distrusted" attitude starts at the top of B&N management, and apparently penetrates down to store management at multiple stores.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Other than that, I'm having a nice day, being retired, occasionally flying, and messing around in amateur radio. How about you? (Please don't reveal any proprietary information.)

                                                                                  • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                    bobstro

                                                                                    Dean Gibson wrote: [...] Other than that, I'm having a nice day, being retired, occasionally flying, and messing around in amateur radio. How about you? (Please don't reveal any proprietary information.)

                                                                                    I'm still working, not likely to retire in this lifetime, mostly snowed in since January and working on my little project described in this thread.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Glad to see you back around these parts.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Having bought 6 NOOKs, it's a wonder I'm not on the No-Fly list!

                                                                                      • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                        DeanGibson

                                                                                        Bob George wrote:

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Glad to see you back around these parts.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I'm not back, in the sense you mean.  I check here every couple weeks, and today I find an informative thread that Jive has been unable to hide.  I assure you, once B&N has found that this thread is valuable, useful, and not hidden in the rest of the junk, they will scrap Jive and install some new piece of junk that that has (even more than Jive) all sorts of badges and trophies that will be fun for some, but make the forums even more useless.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Seriously, I am here a LOT LESS because of Jive, and I intend it to stay that way.  I used to scan the forums for interesting threads from others, and I never do that now.  For one thing, there is no useful way to do that without spending wasting a LOT of time. It doesn't matter if someone wants help;  I don't see the message. The only reason I responded here, is that the thread was at the top of the list, and keriflur started it.  I don't go digging.

                                                                                          • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                            Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                            Same here Dean.  Though I have checked back more often recently.  I find these new forums to be near useless for anything other than the most recently commented on posts.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I can't see who last replied.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I can't really see if there are new replies.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I can't really get a good way to sort the various sub-boards here.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Maybe if I was still using any of my eink Nooks.  As it is I gave my NSTG to my father to replace his when he lost it, I sold my NST awhile back to a former coworkers wife, and my NGL sits on my bedside table because I'm too lazy to get rid of it and too responsible to just chuck an electronic device in the trash. 

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I want to hope for Nook, but then there are things like this article:

                                                                                            Barnes & Noble says Nook still has a future - MarketWatch

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Yes the updated app has its benefits, but we've already seen from Bobstro that it's got its limitations as well.  I really hope there's a new device in the near future, but comments like that from Huesby make me feel it's not going to happen.

                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                      DeanGibson

                                                                                      DeanGibson wrote:

                                                                                       

                                                                                      ...  So, now reading another hardback (bought from Amazon and loaned to me, so no B&N revenue here either).  However, this book I'd like to keep as part of my permanent library (ie, independent of B&N remaining in business), so I decided to buy it in eBook form from B&N.  Guess what?  When I copy it from the Nook 1st Edition, I find that the previous B&N authorization in ADE works on all the older eBooks, but not on this new eBook.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      No combination of name/email and account #/password seems to work on the newly-purchased eBook.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      So, let me see if I understand this:  Calibre is unable to remove the DRM from the newly downloaded eBooks, even with a plug-in?  I have to install Nook Study (Yuzu), and on Windows 8.1, in order be able to strip DRM?

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Edit:  I see Froide's post that provides a link to an older version of NookStudy for Win XP/7.  That works for this purpose?

                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                          Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                          It should work Dean.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          I installed Nook Study for Mac (not Yuza) and it worked.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          It should be noted that it's a one time process, once you've created the code it should work for any new book.

                                                                                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                            • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                              DeanGibson

                                                                                              Mercury_Glitch wrote:

                                                                                               

                                                                                              It should work Dean.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I installed Nook Study for Mac (not Yuza) and it worked.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              It should be noted that it's a one time process, once you've created the code it should work for any new book.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I'm sorry;  I'm missing a piece here.  What do you mean, "Created the code"?  You mean the code that B&N just generated for my most recent purchase?  That's a new code that replaces my credit card #, and it's a constant, and I extract it using NookStudy, and then use the DRM-removal tool to apply it to my recent DRMed ePub?

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Is this process clearly documented somewhere?  I spent about 1/2 hour searching mobileread, without much success.

                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                  kamas716

                                                                                                  I looked at the mobile reads forum last night and then Alf's blog. I tried the work around listed by 'nobody you know', but it still didn't work on the eBook I downloaded with the greasemonkey script. Since I STILL can't get NookStudy to work on either the XP or Win7 machines I'll just wait to see if it comes up free somewhere else.

                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                      Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                                      The code I was talking about was the encryption key generated by a certain Calibre plugin when following the steps in the help file in Alfs latest tools.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      That does require Nook Study, Calibre, the plugin, and you digging a bit in the specified directory.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I'm not sure if this process works with the greasemonkey script or not.

                                                                                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                          kamas716

                                                                                                          Yeah, if I could get NookStudy to work it wouldn't be a problem. As it is, Problem! I'm tired of screwing around with it. I'll just get my books somewhere else, it's become too much of a hassle.

                                                                                                            • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                              Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                                              Can't say as I blame you, B&N keeps adding hoops to jump through for its customers, but with few to no rewards for the extra added effort. 

                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                  DeanGibson

                                                                                                                  Mercury_Glitch wrote:

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  ... B&N keeps adding hoops to jump through for its customers, but with few to no rewards for the extra added effort. 

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  Neither to the customer, nor to B&N investors, judging by B&N stock behavior.  I wonder who it does benefit ...

                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                  keriflur

                                                                                                                  kamas716 wrote:

                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                  Yeah, if I could get NookStudy to work it wouldn't be a problem. As it is, Problem! I'm tired of screwing around with it. I'll just get my books somewhere else, it's become too much of a hassle.

                                                                                                                  This is where I'm at also.

                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                      DeanGibson

                                                                                                                      keriflur wrote:

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      This is where I'm at also.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      Wow, the only problem I had installing NookStudy for Win XP & 7 (available from NOOK Study , on the Amazon servers at https://customer-care.s3.amazonaws.com/nook-study-install/NOOKstudy_Setup.exe ) was that, when I told it to install in a non-default directory, it started to do so, and then tried to install a file in the default directory (doesn't B&N do any significant software testing?).  However, since it hadn't created the default directory, the install failed.  Restarting the install in the default directory worked.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      I had no problem connecting to whatever B&N servers this version (2.1.2.28770) of Nook Study wanted to, and I downloaded my recent B&N purchases.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      Dealing with DRM was a bit more interesting, since the key needed for those eBooks downloaded via Nook Study is different from that for the Nook 1stEd, at least for my most recent purchase, and the credit card # did not work for accessing files created by either eReader software.  That appears to make the Nook 1stEd less useful than I thought it would be.  It also seems to make ADE totally useless.  That's fine with me, as I cannot believe that an eReader program should take ten seconds or more to load on a fast PC, even if it IS written by Adobe..

                                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                          bobstro

                                                                                                                          I am SO GLAD I decided the sky was, indeed, falling back when the nonsense with B&N blocking downloads started. I cashed in every gift card point I had, future-proofed everything and have studiously avoided buying any B&N content since.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          At this point, even if B&N comes out with stellar devices, I am going to have a hard time coming up with any reason to try one. After the "more open" approach of providing GoPS on the HD/+ line and NGTS, the seem to have gone full-on bonkers with the one thing they have as a strength.  They don't seem to understand in the least that one reason NOOKs sold is that they weren't as locked up (at least initially) as Kindles. Now? Sheesh.

                                                                                                                            • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                              gb18

                                                                                                                              Has anyone tried any of the Icarus, Onyx, or similar ereaders with full Android operating systems?

                                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                  bobstro

                                                                                                                                  gb18 wrote:

                                                                                                                                  Has anyone tried any of the Icarus, Onyx, or similar ereaders with full Android operating systems?

                                                                                                                                  I almost went for the Onyx Boox T68 last year, but I happened to be in Montreal and liked the Kobo H2O in the shop, so bought that instead. From what I've been reading, it was probably a wise decision.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  There's a thread over on Mobileread about many of these devices. Using one sounds a lot like rooting a NOOK or other device. Some stuff works, but you spend a lot of time tweaking it, and a lot of programs don't work well with black and white displays. When I read about battery life, wifi and screen quality issues with eink, I lose interest quickly. While I'd really like some way of wirelessly sycing my sideloaded reading position on eink devices, I can survive without it if it means a good renderer and screen quality (not to mention waterproofiness). To be fair, I wasted a LOT of time in past years rooting and tweaking my NSTs myself, so if you enjoy that sort of thing, they do sound interesting.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  If I were to purchase one now, I'd try loading up Moon+ on it and little else. Moon+ handles the sync nicely with Dropbox. The only problem is that it doesn't render technical epubs as well as some other readers. It's great for fiction though.

                                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                  DeanGibson

                                                                                                                                  Bob George wrote:

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  ...

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  At this point, even if B&N comes out with stellar devices, I am going to have a hard time coming up with any reason to try one.  ...

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Just to make it clear, I was able to make my B&N eBooks "more readable" with the process described by Mercury.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Other than the Nook Color and Nook Tablet (which were real leaders in the marketplace), I was never particularly enthralled with the other B&N devices when new.  My eInk Nooks were bought used at really good prices, and I bought the HD/+ devices at discounted (eg, Black Friday) prices.  The latter have since been sold, except for one HD+, which is happily running CM11.  I've never even been in a B&N store to see the Samsung devices (or for any other purpose in the past year).

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  If one has a cellular account with a data plan, the prices on the current tablets are hard to beat.  In fact, I think the market for WiFi-only devices is going to shrink significantly in the next year or so, which will help close-out prices but not new device prices.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  That leaves eBooks.  So long as I can buy one eBook at a time and "liberate" each one, I don't mind staying with B&N;  the ePub format is worth it.

                                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                      DeanGibson

                                                                                                                                      DeanGibson wrote:

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      If one has a cellular account with a data plan, the prices on the current tablets are hard to beat.  In fact, I think the market for WiFi-only devices is going to shrink significantly in the next year or so, which will help close-out prices but not new device prices.

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      Speaking of future devices, the Windows tablets have to compete against this:

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      WinBook TW700 Tablet - Black 466326 - Micro Center  ($70, including Windows 8.1)

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      I don't have one, but I've seen them in the flesh.  Now, if you don't want a Windows tablet, it doesn't matter:  this is the "new competition" for the entire tablet market.  B&N was correct to get out of the hardware manufacturing business.

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      The Chinese electronics market is invading everything.  Low-end handheld amateur radio transceivers from established USA firms (Japanese source) have been running about $200 (plus accessories) for the past decade.  The Chinese have recently entered the market with this: Amazon.com : Baofeng UV5RA Ham Two Way Radio 136-174/400-480 MHz Dual-Band Transceiver (Black) : Frs Two Way Radios : Ca…  for $30 (including accessories).  That's less than the cost of a battery from the USA firms.  No, I don't have one of these either, but I've also seen these in the flesh.  They don't have all the features of the radios from USA firms, but they're solidly built (no cheap plastic) and apparently reliable.

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      The associated (free) software is, well, better tested that B&N's.

                                                                                                                                      • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                        keriflur

                                                                                                                                        Dean Gibson wrote:

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        That leaves eBooks.  So long as I can buy one eBook at a time and "liberate" each one, I don't mind staying with B&N;  the ePub format is worth it.

                                                                                                                                        Google sells epubs also, almost always for the same price as Amazon and often less than B&N. Their books use Adobe's ADEPT DRM, with all that it entails (easy liberation, easy transfer to readers, etc.), and they have rather nice web app.

                                                                                                                                        1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                      kamas716

                                                                                                                                      The problems I have with NookStudy (and Nook for PC) started in October https://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/thread/25091 and have never been rectified, never heard back from Alex about anything either.

                                                                                                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                DeanGibson

                                                                                                                                kamas716 wrote:

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                I looked at the mobile reads forum last night and then Alf's blog. I tried the work around listed by 'nobody you know', but it still didn't work on the eBook I downloaded with the greasemonkey script. Since I STILL can't get NookStudy to work on either the XP or Win7 machines.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Were you able to at least install NookStudy and view your eBooks??  If not, did you install in the DEFAULT directory?

                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                      LarryOnLI

                                                                                                      Oh yea, and the sky is falling.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I agree that this move by B&N s***s, however it is not the end of the world.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Also I fail to see how moving to another vendor with proprietary DRM resolves the issue.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      It is the assertion that if (or when as some users are saying) B&N goes out of business, everyone with books stored in B&N's cloud will lose their books.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      The fact is the B&N customer list is very valuable and we will be sold (along with our eBook libraries) to another vendor. We might (almost definitely will) need to by another reader or download another vendors app, but are very unlikely to lose our content.

                                                                                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                          keriflur

                                                                                                          I don't think anyone said it was the end of the world (hyperbole much?). It is a frustration, an annoyance, and a deterrent to purchase.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          And given that I've now had two bookstores from which I bought books go out of business, and I've been able to transfer less than half the books I bought from both of those services, I'd say we are actually very likely to lose some of our content when B&N goes down.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Those of us that are backing up and future-proofing our books aren't doing it out of paranoia, we're doing it because of past experience.

                                                                                                          • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                            bobstro

                                                                                                            LarryOnLI wrote:

                                                                                                            [...] It is the assertion that if (or when as some users are saying) B&N goes out of business, everyone with books stored in B&N's cloud will lose their books.

                                                                                                            As well as the means to read those same books on anything but a NOOK device. With B&N's demise, the odds of someone putting out another NOOK are slim indeed.

                                                                                                            The fact is the B&N customer list is very valuable and we will be sold (along with our eBook libraries) to another vendor. We might (almost definitely will) need to by another reader or download another vendors app, but are very unlikely to lose our content.

                                                                                                            That's a big IF, and it doesn't take into account the DRM issue. What will the new holder of B&N's list use? Will it be compatible with the devices we own already, or (and this might be the main value of the customer list) will we have to "upgrade" to the list owner's brand to continue reading our ebooks purchased from B&N?

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            The sky has not fallen just yet, but it's a good time to be watching for it.

                                                                                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                                                If B&N does decide to spin off Nook, either in their demise or to unload it, who would you want to pick up the customer list?

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Amazon may have B&N beat on phone customer service but the more closed nature of their device is irritating at best.  And while you can get other content on the device, managing said content is about as easy as doing so on the Nook (re: shelves).

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Kobo is likely the reverse, their CS could really stand a lot of improvement, but in terms of ease of migration from B&N to another retailer I think they may beat Amazon, customers will already be used to epub and any existing sideloaded content should just work.

                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                Someone else?  Is there even another major player in the game?  I know there are other companies releasing ereaders but I don't think any of them would be able to buy out the customer list.  Amazon and Kobo have both shown a willingness to invest a lot in their devices.

                                                                                                                  • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                    bobstro

                                                                                                                    GB18 posted a link to an article that is relevant. An ebook store, Abbey House, was going under. Under agreements with the publishers, they'd DRM-encumbered the ebooks they sold. At their demise, they pointed customers to Calibre to aid stripping DRM. The publishers took them to court, and the judge ruled in their (the store's) favor: "... [Simon & Schuster] and Penguin's arguments to the contrary conflate the removal of DRM protection with the infringement alleged in the counterclaims. There is no question that Abbey House encouraged the removal of DRM protection. The act of infringement underlying the inducement claim, however, is not the removal of DRM protection. Rather, it is the copying and distribution of ebooks to others after such protection has been removed. The counterclaims do not allege that Abbey House encouraged such infringing acts."

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    So whether the sky is indeed falling or not, a legal ruling has been made that "future-proofing" one's ebook purchases is legal.

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    I wouldn't sit around waiting and hoping some benign 3rd party buys up B&Ns customer list and ebook licenses. Backups are a good idea. This is one way to do it.

                                                                                                                    4 of 4 people found this helpful
                                                                                                                      • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                        keriflur

                                                                                                                        I'm not sure that this ruling creates any precedent relating to the legality of DRM removal. The suit was for copyright infringement, and removing DRM does not infringe copyright. But that doesn't make it legal under the DMCA, which bans DRM removal regardless of whether you then choose to infringe copyright or not.

                                                                                                                          • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                            bobstro

                                                                                                                            I think the entire issue is still open to challenges. The EFF article has some comments that are relevant: "...

                                                                                                                            it's an especially significant point as we continue with the triennial rulemaking process seeking exemptions to the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. There, we are pointing to non-infringing uses that are nevertheless hampered by the presence of DRM software and the legal backing that supports it."

                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                            I like the EFF's conclusion: "... Judge Cote’s ruling is a refreshing response to a disappointingly common conflation: if the publishers got their way, readers' technical ability to infringe because they're not restricted by DRM would effectively count as infringement. That's the same faulty logic that the copyright lobby uses to argue for increasing control over secondary uses of purchased works, whether that's importing or re-selling media, or even repairing or modifying devices. It's a cynical view that treats a user's ownership as assumed wrongdoing—so it's nice to see Judge Cote reject it. [...] DRM, and the laws behind it, have contributed to a sense among rightsholders that they can and should control media and devices even after users have purchased them. Judge Cote's ruling is an important reminder that that's not the case."

                                                                                                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                keriflur

                                                                                                                                I'm not sure I'm so warm on that conclusion. I do feel that it's important to protect copyright, because if we don't, only the independently wealthy will be able to afford to make art. I don't think DRM is the way to do that, but I do think we need to be careful of the message that rightsholders should have no control over what buyers do with media once it's purchased. Most folks spend very little time (or no time at all) thinking about copyright, because historically the lines were cut and dry - don't use a copy machine to make copies and give them away, don't plagiarize, etc. But it's easy to see how "you can do whatever you want with your digital copy" can get out of hand quickly, with sharing multiple copies with all your friends and family, selling a copy but forgetting to remove the original from your hard drive, printing a copy for your personal backup that you then loan to a friend (while still retaining your digital copy), etc. These are things that that violate copyright, but that don't necessarily trigger the moral flag in the brain that tells someone what they're doing might be wrong or illegal. These things NEED to trip the moral flag, and that will come in part by how we talk about copyright and what's allowed under it.

                                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                  keriflur

                                                                                                                                  I read an article this morning by a guy who stated that HBO NOW (the new subscription service for folks who don't have a cable HBO subscription) was too expensive at $15/month, so he was just going to continue to freeload by using his parents' login to watch the two shows he loved.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  2 shows a week are 8 eps a month, which makes them less than $2 per episode. One of those shows was Game of Thrones, which is shot at multiple locations with extravagant sets and costumes and a boatload of actors. It likely costs a small fortune to produce. But it's not worth $2 per ep to this guy. And I bet he'd be pretty po'd if HBO stopped making the show because of the cost.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  This is where we are on the value of content.

                                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                      Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                                                                      I agree Keri, though I don't think the judge, nor EF's conclusions exclude protections for rightsholders.  The DMCA is heavy handed in protecting those rights at the costs of the rights of the users.  The judge specifies that the intent to distribute was not present in any of the evidence Apple and Penguin presented, only the ability. 

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      Should pirates be prosecuted?  Absolutely.

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      Should everyone be assumed to be a pirate from now unto eternity?  Well, if you're (the companies and courts) going to treat them like pirates anyway be prepared to have some of them become what you're treating them as.  And we've already seen from the music, movie, and even the book industry that DRM is about as effective a shield as wet paper tissue.

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      I read the judges ruling and EF's thoughts as a statement to rightsholders that they need to respect the rights of the consumers to effectively use the products they purchase.

                                                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                          keriflur

                                                                                                                                          Yeah, I think we're all on the same page, it's EF's wording that concerns me (though I see the intention). I just think people, especially those that report the news, need to be careful here.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I see all the time where people misunderstand what copyright is and think that they're not doing anything wrong when they are. Lots of folks think that attribution means they don't need to ask permission to use someone's work (this is REALLY common with photography, but happens all the time with written works also). They think that in part because they see it all the time, and in part because the media tells them (and shows them, by doing the same) that it's okay.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          It does make me happy that so many kids are on twitter, talking to authors and artists and learning about copyright and what it means to make a living from art.

                                                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                          bobstro

                                                                                                                                          keriflur wrote:

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I read an article this morning by a guy who stated that HBO NOW (the new subscription service for folks who don't have a cable HBO subscription) was too expensive at $15/month, so he was just going to continue to freeload by using his parents' login to watch the two shows he loved.

                                                                                                                                          Well, if you ask the average kid what things should cost, content would be free and no device would cost more than $100. I do note that the kid's parents are paying, and HBO is generally OK with this sort of family "freeloading" from the articles I've read.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          As to the need to protect copyright, I agree, but I'd also point out that the original intent of copyright wasn't to make sure rightsholders got rich. There were protections and rights accorded consumers as well, many of which seem to have been trampled.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I know this wasn't your intent, but my teeth grate when the ability to backup and protect my purchases gets wrapped up into a discussion of protecting the rightsholders from me. As the EFF states: "It's a cynical view that treats a user's ownership as assumed wrongdoing." This seems to be exactly what B&N is doing lately.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I do enjoy discussions about what measures do work to protect copyright holders. The industry (and B&N) need to stop equating that to DRM and encumbering legal use of content. Particularly since DRM doesn't work.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          The current situation reminds me of hotels of not-too-long-ago where every hanger was fixed to the bar and alarm clocks were bolted down. At some point, somebody must have realized they were spending more bolting things down that the items were worth and the hotels decided to trust me when I threatened them by renting a room from them. Astonishingly, I've been able to avoid stealing hangers and alarm clocks, even as the hotels have started putting nicer furnishing in.

                                                                                                                                            • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                              keriflur

                                                                                                                                              The rub about the HBO thing is that this wasn't a kid, this was a full grown adult who is a professional journalist, who can clearly afford $15/month.

                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                              As for making copyright holders rich, you might want to take a look at what the average artist makes for a living. For most, a living wage is an aspiration.

                                                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                  bobstro

                                                                                                                                                  keriflur wrote:

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  The rub about the HBO thing is that this wasn't a kid, this was a full grown adult who is a professional journalist, who can clearly afford $15/month.

                                                                                                                                                  Ah, gotcha. At least his is a borderline case. Not so egregious as pirating the episodes. I've read that artists are often as bad as anybody else when it comes to feeling entitled.

                                                                                                                                                  As for making copyright holders rich, you might want to take a look at what the average artist makes for a living. For most, a living wage is an aspiration.

                                                                                                                                                  Perhaps I used the wrong legal term. Isn't the copyright holder the publisher or studio? I know the artists are starving, and always have. Yet the full legal force of the DMCA seems to be focused on protecting the mega-studios and publishers with nary a thought to the artists and authors. The "R" in DRM certainly isn't about the artist!

                                                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                      Froide

                                                                                                                                                      Hence, the importance of such organizations as the National Writers Union, which:

                                                                                                                                                      seeks to defend the rights of and improve the economic and working conditions for all writers. It offers advocacy, contract advice, grievance assistance, a job hotline, member education, press passes for qualified members, writer alerts and warnings, and access to group rate health and dental insurance (in certain geographic areas). The union also issues various publications and an irregular journal called American Writer. NWU members are voting members of the UAW and eligible for various benefits offered through the UAW and the AFL-CIO.

                                                                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                          MacMcK1957

                                                                                                                                                          I guess there are always debates about what constitutes piracy.  There were e-books I de-DRM'ed in order to adjust the format, because the font size was unreadable for my visually impaired mother.  She had bought and downloaded them but the idiot publishers had locked the format to prevent the largest font sizes.  Technically, that would constitute a violation.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Back in the day, we used to have these things called record albums, made of vinyl, and we commonly copied them to things called cassette tapes, so we could carry them with us on portable players (which were not yet labeled as boomboxes).  Occasionally, we would even borrow an album from a friend and make a copy, but not that much, because you actually had to physically borrow the album, buy a tape, spend the 45 minutes to copy it, and return the album.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          I understand the desire to get the royalties to which one is entitled.  I think the problem is that the encryption schemes don't seem to block the real pirates, but interfere with people who just want to make full use of the works they have legitimately purchased.

                                                                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                          keriflur

                                                                                                                                                          Bob, check the copyright page in some of your books. You'll see the author's name in there *most* of the time - and when you don't, it's often the name of a company that is wholly owned by the author (book packagers and some others will be the exception to this). With the exception of books written for hire, the author holds the copyright. They get that copyright automatically as soon as they begin to create the work. Authors sell the rights publish in X formats for X amount of time or until X conditions are met, but the copyright stays in their name.

                                                                                                                                                            • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                              bobstro

                                                                                                                                                              Ah, so I've got it right. Again, copyright isn't to guarantee rightholders get rich. That's not to say they ARE necessarily rich, but only that there are other interests that are supposed to be considered. Those interests (as well as artists) are what the DMCA and big corporate interests are ignoring, treating copyright as if it was intended to protect profits.

                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                              And sadly, B&N's latest moves seem to be following that lead.

                                                                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                                  Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                                                                                                  The new DRM scheme actually seems to be worse.  It's slightly harder to generate a key for Alfs plugin since you need to do some digging for the file, but there's no worry about a credit card number now.

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  The instructions are easy enough for most folks to follow, and for those who don't to find someone who can follow them.

                                                                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                                      keriflur

                                                                                                                                                                      Mercury_Glitch wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      The new DRM scheme actually seems to be worse.  It's slightly harder to generate a key for Alfs plugin since you need to do some digging for the file, but there's no worry about a credit card number now.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      The instructions are easy enough for most folks to follow, and for those who don't to find someone who can follow them.

                                                                                                                                                                      Bang up job, B&N.

                                                                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                                      keriflur

                                                                                                                                                                      Bob George wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Ah, so I've got it right. Again, copyright isn't to guarantee rightholders get rich. That's not to say they ARE necessarily rich, but only that there are other interests that are supposed to be considered. Those interests (as well as artists) are what the DMCA and big corporate interests are ignoring, treating copyright as if it was intended to protect profits.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      And sadly, B&N's latest moves seem to be following that lead.

                                                                                                                                                                      Nope, you've still got it wrong. When you (colloquial) steal, the person you're whose rights you're violating is the copyright holder, aka the writer. The person who is directly screwed over is the artist.

                                                                                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                                          bobstro

                                                                                                                                                                          No, I've got it right. Copyright is not meant to guarantee profits. Copyright provides provisions for legitimate copying. DRM interferes with that legal use with the argument that the ability to copy endangers profits and thus trumps such legitimate use. And to add salt to the wound, it doesn't work.

                                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                                          I'm all for something that protects artists while not interfering with legitimate use. After all, it is the purchase that pays the artist. The purchaser should not be prevented from legitimate use. DRM is not that thing. Legitimate purchase should not infer some nefarious intent.

                                                                                                                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                Froide

                                                                                                                                                MacMcK1957  (to luvbooksCM) 9 hours ago

                                                                                                                                                luvbooksCM wrote:

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                I haven't been able to get Nook for PC to update, either. It's been months since it's worked properly.

                                                                                                                                                So basically, B&N is instituting an official policy that their e-books may only be read with their apps, and they can't even get their apps to work consistently.

                                                                                                                                                This.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                Plus...

                                                                                                                                                The other ways to consume NOOK books are via the web and via legacy NOOK devices. Neither of these approaches works consistently, either.

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                And don't get me started on shelves!

                                                                                                                                                • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                  bobstro

                                                                                                                                                  I haven't been able to play around with this stuff yet. Does the new procedure generate a new key per device or per account? Is it no longer social and more akin to ADE?

                                                                                                                                                    • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                      MacMcK1957

                                                                                                                                                      I don't know whether it's by device or by account.  By installing Yuzu (formerly known as NookStudy) I was able to access the new encryption key and future-proof my recent downloads.

                                                                                                                                                      2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                                                                                                                                        • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                          luvbooksCM

                                                                                                                                                          I hadn't realized that Nook Study is now known as Yuzu. A quick google search shows that a Yuzu is a sour, citrus  fruit popular in Asian cuisine.  I wonder why they chose that name to replace Nook Study?

                                                                                                                                                            • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                              keriflur

                                                                                                                                                              luvbooksCM wrote:

                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                              I hadn't realized that Nook Study is now known as Yuzu. A quick google search shows that a Yuzu is a sour, citrus  fruit popular in Asian cuisine.  I wonder why they chose that name to replace Nook Study?

                                                                                                                                                              It's a very odd choice, isn't it?

                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                              I have heard that Yuzu ice cream is delicious.

                                                                                                                                                          • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                            Mercury_Glitch

                                                                                                                                                            bobstro it seems to be account wide, at least from what the instructions indicate. 

                                                                                                                                                            1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                                                                                                              • Re: DRM change?
                                                                                                                                                                Slytheringilr

                                                                                                                                                                I agree with Keriflur. I too have lost all faith and respect for Barnes, especially after never receiving an email response to my pickup in store request. The only way they're getting my money is if I'm in the mood for coffee or actually have a physical copy of a book I really want on their shelves, which won't be too often from now on.